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Would two 8 ohm 2x10's have the same frequency range as one 4 ohm 4x10?

G

grifff

Jan 5, 2009
1,211
58
#1
Lets say two 8 ohm 2x10's each have a frequency range of 40Hz-40KHz. Lets say one 4 ohm 4x10 has a frequency range of 30Hz-40KHz. If I paired the two 2x10's together, would they cover the same frequency ground as the single 4x10?

In other words would two 8 ohm 2x10's paired together gain low end frequency response and sound more like a 4x10?

I play a 5 string bass so I prefer to have nice low end definition and I'm not sure if two 2x10's would give me enough low end. I like the portability of the 2x10's but if my sound would suffer, I'd rather have one 4x10.

I made up those frequency ranges, but I think they are close to the cabinets I am looking at.

Thanks for the help.
 
#2
The frequency range would still be 40Hz-40KHz. The only thing you would increase is the sound pressure.

A larger cabinet can help to accentuate lower frequencies, but larger drive units are the way to do it properly.
 
#4
grifff said:
In other words would two 8 ohm 2x10's paired together gain low end frequency response and sound more like a 4x10?
Click to expand...
If they used identical drivers and the sum total cabinet net volume was the same the low frequency response would be the same. If stacked with the drivers in a vertical line the dispersion of the two 2x10s would be twice that of the 4x10, and you'd hear it much better as well with the higher driver positioning.
A larger cabinet can help to accentuate lower frequencies, but larger drive units are the way to do it properly.
Click to expand...
A larger cabinet has a major effect on low frequency sensitivity, driver size in and of itself doesn't.
 
#5
The number of cab you use does not change the frequency of the cabs. I run two 210 cabs because the load in and out is better. I like the sound better than my old 410, this is less than scientific as the brands are different. 2x210 allows you to stack them vertically - cool iif you dont have o worry about the stage.
 
#6
Not sure about the differences in freq. response, etc., but I play a four string and made the switch from a 4x10 to a pair of 2x10's with absolutely no regrets. I had to change my cabs because I got a smaller car that couldn't haul the bigger box.

Although my 4x10 had casters, the 2x10's aren't a big deal to lug and I get gobs of low end through them when playing my MM Sabre - the sound from that bass has some serious girth. I actually keep my onboard bass eq all the way down and cut the bass on my rack preamp to around 10 o'clock. I play without PA help and my nice healthy power amp pushes my sound with no strain.

I'd figure on using cabs built to run at the frequency range you need, but use enough speaker surface to get the volume you want.
 
#9
billfitzmaurice said:
When that's the only factor, no, it doesn't. Driver size in and of itself does affect dispersion, but not response.
Click to expand...

If you compare an 8", a 10" and a 12" drive unit (manufactured using the same materials) in a cabinet with a volume of 3800 square inches, the 8" will go down to around 35Hz, the 10" to around 27Hz and the 12" to around 20Hz.

Using that same 12" drive unit in 6900 square inch cabinet, it will go down an extra 2Hz, to 18Hz. Using that same 12" drive unit in an 11900 square inch cabinet, it might go down to 17Hz, if you are lucky. Put a 15" drive unit in to that cabinet and it will go down below 15Hz, below 10Hz if the drive unit is capable of it.
 
#11
Mat_F said:
If you compare an 8", a 10" and a 12" drive unit (manufactured using the same materials) in a cabinet with a volume of 3800 square inches, the 8" will go down to around 35Hz, the 10" to around 27Hz and the 12" to around 20Hz.

Using that same 12" drive unit in 6900 square inch cabinet, it will go down an extra 2Hz, to 18Hz. Using that same 12" drive unit in an 11900 square inch cabinet, it might go down to 17Hz, if you are lucky. Put a 15" drive unit in to that cabinet and it will go down below 15Hz, below 10Hz if the drive unit is capable of it.
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Know anybody building cabs that size?
 
#12
Schecter4 said:
However, in the real world, it's pretty hard to make a driver, constructed of the same materials in the same way, that has the same mass with a different diameter.

As the diameter goes up (factor 1) so does the mass of the cone (factor 2).

So, everybody's right.
Click to expand...
Look at the Fs, Mms and Qts of a few dozen pro-sound woofers. You'll find little correlation between cone size, Fs and Mms, and none between cone size and Qts. The fly in the ointment here is that very few drivers are constructed of the same materials in the same way.
 
#14
Mat_F said:
No, I was just stating actual results for those particular volumes to prove my point that driver size makes a much bigger difference than cabinet size.
Click to expand...

Now model a hundred or so actual pro-sound woofers in the typical cabinet sizes they're actually used in. The results will be quite different. BTW, you'll want to do so in net cabinet volumes calculated in cubic inches. :D
 
#15
billfitzmaurice said:
Now model a hundred or so actual pro-sound woofers in the typical cabinet sizes they're actually used in. The results will be quite different. BTW, you'll want to do so in net cabinet volumes calculated in cubic inches. :D
Click to expand...

Sorry, my mistake. I typed square inches, but I did actually mean cubic inches. It's late here in the UK and it's been a long day.

The information I stated is correct. The only thing I didn't mention is that I was talking about sealed box designs. Ported designs would make more of a difference, but ports are just a way to try and cover up the limitations of cheap drive units that aren't capable of producing the desired frequencies at adequate volumes. Closed box designs (when done well) are far superior and I personally would never use anything else.

Although the drive units I have referred to are made by 2 different manufacturers, the materials used to make them are the same (or at least the closest you are likely to get). The quality of the drive units used will produce different results, which is why manufacturer’s specs do vary quite considerably (not that you can really trust what most of them claim), but the drive units I have mentioned are all very high quality and certainly comparable to each other in that respect.
 
#16
Mat_F said:
...ports are just a way to try and cover up the limitations of cheap drive units that aren't capable of producing the desired frequencies at adequate volumes.
Click to expand...

I disagree.

Porting pushes the box size/efficiency/bass extension tradeoff into more favorable territory than you can get with a sealed box.

It's quite possible to design a vented box to mimic the frequency response of a sealed box; I've done it many times.

A ported box gives the designer (and sometimes the end user) useful options for optimizing the system for a given application.

Finally, woofers whose parameters are conducive to good midrange performance usually work better in a vented box than in a sealed box. These tend to be expensive woofers, not cheap ones.

Which type of box is best depends on the specific application, in my opinion.
 
#18
To the original poster, I own a 4 ohm Eden 410XLT and a pair of Eden 8 ohm 210 cabs. The 210 cabs however, are different models. I have a 210XLT which has the same drivers as the 410XLT and then a 21XST which is quite a different animal despite being almost the same size as the other cab.

In comparing the 410 against the 210 stack, I have noted some interesting differences.

The 410XLT has more overall punch and growl, It cannot hold a candle to the 210 stack for sheer low end as the XST cab is tuned to put out a lot of deep low end without all the snarly mids of the XLT series of cabs. Together the 210 cabs compliment each other and really do give me the best of both worlds.

I love my 410XLT as a single standalone cab, but it weighs almost a hundred pounds and is a pain to lift. The 210 cabs are both fairly heavy and bulky but fit nicely in my small hatchback and can easily be carried one at a time.

If you are considering a pair of 210 cabs, mixing them up may be a better option then two identical cabs. I would not be happy with a pair of either the XLT or XST 210 cabs but one of each really does sounds incredible.
 
#19
Mat_F said:
The information I stated is correct. The only thing I didn't mention is that I was talking about sealed box designs. Ported designs would make more of a difference, but ports are just a way to try and cover up the limitations of cheap drive units that aren't capable of producing the desired frequencies at adequate volumes. Closed box designs (when done well) are far superior and I personally would never use anything else.
Click to expand...
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