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Double Bass Would you buy a Woods (used)

Ric Vice

Ric Vice

Supporting Member
Jul 2, 2005
14,300
12,472
Olivette, Missouri
#1
This is a question that I've been pondering. It's specific to the burgeoning used market for older Walter Woods amplifiers. Based on all the great new amplifiers, like the Acoustic Image Clarus + and Euphonic Audio Doubler, Markbass etc. is a used Walter Woods from the MI series really a worthwhile investment? Personally, I love the pre amp, and have had three amps from Walter that have never had any service issues. That's why I use them, but it's a personal bias of mine.
Price is definitely an issue here, some sellers charge a hefty price because of Walter's name recognition and reputation. How long can you feasibly repair a amp that was built in 1980, without it costing a substantial amount of money? The Ampeg B-15 has built such a reputation that it has entire websites devoted to replacement parts. Just wondering what people think.

Ric
 
#2
Hi Ric-

These things are such a matter of personal preference that it will undoubtedly be "worth it" to the Woods diehards like yourself but not "worth it" to those of us who can live with (and even prefer :p) the other small amps. I am personally a little more comfortable with an amp that is not reliant on one person for service and support. However, I have never heard a single complaint regarding Mr. Woods' service and support and have no reason to think Mr. Woods will leave any owner of his amp "hanging" at some point.
 
#3
From all accounts AI has EXCELLENT customer service, there are any number of posts to that effect here. The thing about Woods' is that they are TANKS. Mike Formanek (for example) has had an early model for well over 21 years that has never needed repair. Ralph Hamperian's is closer to 30 years old, never been in the shop.

And that's not sitting at home in the closet; that's years of world travel...
 
#4
Wilbyman said:
Hi Ric-

These things are such a matter of personal preference that it will undoubtedly be "worth it" to the Woods diehards like yourself but not "worth it" to those of us who can live with (and even prefer :p) the other small amps. I am personally a little more comfortable with an amp that is not reliant on one person for service and support. However, I have never heard a single complaint regarding Mr. Woods' service and support and have no reason to think Mr. Woods will leave any owner of his amp "hanging" at some point.
Click to expand...

Great points Wilbyman. When I purchased my first Woods in 1980 MI-100-8 it cost $640.00 shipped and AI, EA and Markbass weren't around. Interestingly enough, it's biggest competition came from the Ampeg B-15 weighing in at 80 lbs.and eventually GK with the introduction of the micro bass amps.
 
#5
Ed Fuqua said:
From all accounts AI has EXCELLENT customer service, there are any number of posts to that effect here. The thing about Woods' is that they are TANKS. Mike Formanek (for example) has had an early model for well over 21 years that has never needed repair. Ralph Hamperian's is closer to 30 years old, never been in the shop.

And that's not sitting at home in the closet; that's years of world travel...
Click to expand...

Ed,
Agreed, my MI-100-8 is now 29 years and the only thing I ever fixed was a frayed power cord. He also updated the sides to protect the knobs better. The reliability of a Walter Woods is excellent.

Ric
 
#6
I have a '97 Walter Woods Electracoustic amp that I bought used, and, of all the amps I've ever played through, it's by far my favorite. Fortunately for me, I got my amp for a very reasonable price, however I sometimes see used Walter Woods amps with asking prices that strike me as unreasonable or even downright ridiculous.

Although I really like the sound of the vintage WW amps, the current ('96 to present) Electracoustic amps are more practical for a working player IMO. Incidentally the power rating for my green light amp is "only" 300 watts @ 8 ohms. However, I have never heard it distort or sound strained even when playing very loud (DB or BG). While many people seem to want an Ultra, one of the other Electracoustic amps (red, green and yellow lights) may be all you really need. These amps can often be found for lower cost on the used market than an Ultra.
 
#7
robgrow said:
I have a '97 Walter Woods Electracoustic amp that I bought used, and, of all the amps I've ever played through, it's by far my favorite. Fortunately for me, I got my amp for a very reasonable price, however I sometimes see used Walter Woods amps with asking prices that strike me as unreasonable or even downright ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Bob,

It seems as though once an amplifier reaches "cult status" things truly get out of hand. IMHO reselling an amplifier at fair market value







robgrow said:
Although I really like the sound of the vintage WW amps, the current ('96 to present) Electracoustic amps are more practical for a working player IMO. . ............While many people seem to want an Ultra, one of the other Electracoustic amps (red, green and yellow lights) may be all you really need. ..............
Click to expand...

That's certainly true of the green and yellow light's vs the Ultra. The advantage is that the redesigned pre amp and the digital power amplifier really sound better. Personally, I think that's why Walter redesigned the amplifier in the first place. The MI-100-8 sounded really good, but Walter didn't build the MI-400-8 and MI-600-8 for very long, the problem was that he had to increase the weight to 9 lbs for the MI-400 and 11 lbs for the MI-600. IMHO the design actually worked better with a smaller power amp rating, but that's just my opinion

Ric
 
#9
I own one of WW's earlier amps, the one with vinyl covered plywood top and bottom, and thick aluminum sides. I think it's from the mid-seventies. About four years ago, it started malfunctioning. I called Walter, and he told me NOT to send it to him. Except for the switching power supply, the other components are very stock. If the case were that he couldn't fix the power supply, that may be a legitimate reason not to fix it. I think that he just didn't want to be bothered by an older amp. The point is, that he didn't even want to find out what the problem was. I then bought an Acoustic Image amp, and have been very happy with it. When I had a minor problem with the fuse holder, they shipped me the newer type, and I've never had any other problems.

George
 
#10
61pollmann said:
I own one of WW's earlier amps, the one with vinyl covered plywood top and bottom, and thick aluminum sides. I think it's from the mid-seventies. About four years ago, it started malfunctioning. I called Walter, and he told me NOT to send it to him. Except for the switching power supply, the other components are very stock. If the case were that he couldn't fix the power supply, that may be a legitimate reason not to fix it. I think that he just didn't want to be bothered by an older amp. The point is, that he didn't even want to find out what the problem was. I then bought an Acoustic Image amp, and have been very happy with it. When I had a minor problem with the fuse holder, they shipped me the newer type, and I've never had any other problems.

George
Click to expand...
What you describe is the original Walter Woods Mini Amp, model MI 100-4, AKA "The Ice Cream Sandwich" because of its unique shape. The MI 100-4 amps were made in the early 70's. Walter has been making amps for about forty years now, and unfortunately parts are getting scarce or are completely unavailable for some of the older models. Yet another reason I'd recommend the current WW Electracoustic series.
 
#11
ehochberg said:
My experience with an old Mi-100 2 channel 100 watter, I had to have the power supply replaced twice by Walter in the 5 years or so I owned it (bought it used). After the second time, I sold it and haven't looked back.
Click to expand...

Ehochberg,
When I got my first Walter Woods MI-100-8 in 1980 and unpacked it it wouldn't come on at all. I called Walter and he told me that he had received a bad run of the main component for his digital switching power supply. I had it back in three days, he payed the shipping charges and it's never had a problem since. I don't know how I would reacted if it had gone down twice though.

Ric
 
#12
While I have had occasion to purchase WW amps in the past, I have never owned one myself. I am not sure with the ridiculous prices you sometimes see on Ebay for the older M100's if it is really worth it(unless you find a deal). There is just so much great gear out there now with Acoustic Image and their great customer service, Phil Jones, Mark Bass, Euphonic Audio etc, that I could definitely see buying a WW Ultra, but shelling out $1000+ for an old 100 watt amp doesn't seem at all worth while. I totally understand the uniqueness of the sound though...
 
#14
ehochberg said:
I agree. On the sound, I was not a big fan of the preamp. I used an Alembic pre with the Woods power amp when I had mine.
Click to expand...

State of the art for the time those two pieces were first built. The Amembic pre amp had tubes so it would sound different than the Walter Woods preamp. I never had the chance to play through one. I did drool over the brocheure in my youth though.

Ric
 
#16
Ric Vice said:
State of the art for the time those two pieces were first built. The Amembic pre amp had tubes so it would sound different than the Walter Woods preamp. I never had the chance to play through one. I did drool over the brocheure in my youth though.

Ric
Click to expand...

As a combined bassist and electronics geek in high school, I looked at the ad on the back of The Evolving Bassist and wondered how Walter Woods could possibly do it. Of course I had never heard of switching power supplies.
 
#17
robgrow said:
What you describe is the original Walter Woods Mini Amp, model MI 100-4, AKA "The Ice Cream Sandwich" because of its unique shape. The MI 100-4 amps were made in the early 70's. Walter has been making amps for about forty years now, and unfortunately parts are getting scarce or are completely unavailable for some of the older models. Yet another reason I'd recommend the current WW Electracoustic series.
Click to expand...

My point was that the majority of electronic components in WW amps are stock resisters, capacitors, etc. These do not go out of availability. It's possible that my amp could easily be repaired. If it did happen to be a switching power supply problem, then I understand that parts may not be available. The only way to know for certain would be for Walter to actually look at the amp. He refused to do that.
 
#18
61pollmann said:
My point was that the majority of electronic components in WW amps are stock resisters, capacitors, etc. These do not go out of availability. It's possible that my amp could easily be repaired. If it did happen to be a switching power supply problem, then I understand that parts may not be available. The only way to know for certain would be for Walter to actually look at the amp. He refused to do that.
Click to expand...
I wonder how many other amplifier companies support products that are close to forty years old.
 
#19
61pollmann said:
My point was that the majority of electronic components in WW amps are stock resisters, capacitors, etc. These do not go out of availability. It's possible that my amp could easily be repaired. If it did happen to be a switching power supply problem, then I understand that parts may not be available. The only way to know for certain would be for Walter to actually look at the amp. He refused to do that.
Click to expand...

As far as I know, this has only happened one other time with the MI-225-8. That amp had two separate mono power amplifiers ganged together to achieve twice the power of the MI-100-8. Evidently there was something different about the particular switch mode power supplies that were used in his early amplifiers. Once their gone the amp can't be repaired. It's quite possible that once you gave Walter the details on a amp's problems he already knew what parts were required to repair it.

Ric
 
#20
ehochberg said:
The Alembic pre is based on a Dual Showman, I believe.
Click to expand...

It is indeed bassed on the passive tone stack and preamp of a Fender Dual Showman. So is a BBE B-max-t, Fender tbp-1, and a few other very affordable preamps out there. You'd be suprised at how similar they all sound. And at the price difference...
+1 to using a woods with a different preamp in front of it. It's not neccessary for Acoustic bass, but for electric it's a real eye-opener as to what the power amp section of a woods amp is capable of.

Back to the original post:

I also have owned 2 Woods Ultra's (the newer series). I also have had absolutely 0 problems with it, and it has survived trips to very safe places like Europe, and much harder places (in terms of electrical power consistency) like Africa. The power supply thrived in both settings. It will run off of ANYTHING.
After 6 or 7 years of daily use on the current WW amp (and sometimes abuse!) I now need to replace the A/C power cord and take some slight bending out of the side panels. that's because I've been carrying it around in my gig bag for every gig and every rehearsal for 6 or 7 years.
The only real problem I've ever had with the amp is when the first one was stolen. Broke my heart, and it broke the bank but I did eventually buy another from Walter. I found things that sound better but they weigh a lot more than 6lbs. I tried things that weighed as much or less, but they didn't sound as good. I've never seen anything so sturdy.
Are these amps worth 2 or 3 times what an Acoustic Image amp sells for used? probably not. I would have no problems owning one of those, but I do like the Walter Woods heads just a little bit better.
The new Woods Amps are great tools, but I would warn everybody to avoid any seller on line who is trying to sell them for as much or more (!) than Walter himself charges. That practice is ridiculous, and frankly Walter isn't THAT hard to get a hold of.
I've also heard that Walter has made arrangements for someone else to be able to repair his amps in the future, should he ever decide to retire. Can anyone else confirm that?
 

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