Would You Honor This Gig?

[Astronaut]

If the weather is unbearable, it will be for everyone; band, audience, techs, etc... No one can oblige another to endure extreme weather conditions, I mean in a civilized country at least.
OTOH that’s why tech riders and contracts were invented.

 

[Chicory Blue]

The solution here is simple. Attempt the gig. If it’s too cold, kill the BL and crawl inside him for warmth.

--^@

 

[gln1955]

It was the sax player. He has a different perspective. He probably played in marching bands at football games in the snow.

 

[LBS-bass]

The solution here is simple. Attempt the gig. If it’s too cold, kill the BL and crawl inside him for warmth.

--^@

LOL that's the perfect solution

 

[malthumb]

I'd expect a heated tent. But even then, mid forties is about as cold as I ever remember doing a gig in back when I lived in VT.

^^ This. The YouTube clip is from Detroit’s annual Winter Blast. It is held in February. Detroit is the only city in mainland US where you drive SOUTH to enter Canada, so yes, February in Detroit is brutally cold. Often below zero before factoring in wind chill.

 

[MattZilla]

Whoooooo? The heeeeck. Waaaants? To. Dance. Out fricken side on the cusp of the fricken snow season. Stupid.

I understand upstate/central NY weather means that any day in early Nov could be 72 F and sunny and having at least one band booked to a stage is a good idea for these "A Taste of..." things. It's four times as likely to be 10 F and snowing and ten times more likely to be 38 F, grey and misting.

I did camera work for an outdoors NYE thing in Syracuse a handful of years ago. I got on stage a few times for Drummer's-View crowd shots and found it somehow was darned close to 65 F up there despite definitely being ~28 F all around. All of the performers were dressed for skiing right up to and then after hitting the stage, but wore normal stage gear on stage. All of the families were out bobbing their heads and occasionally dancing in their snowsuits. The sound was mind-bogglingly good for what was in reality a large parking lot with a steel stage. The whole operation was surprisingly top notch. [edit- all of the very professional musicians (most of whom I know for a fact typically used EBMM/Gibson/PRS/etc) were using Epiphone, Ibanez, and Cort]

As the POC's attitude indicates that it's unlikely that there'd be any on-stage climate control, I would quadruple my going rate.

 

[TrueNorthMatt]

I think it's very doable with a bit of wind protection and good outdoor heaters (using propane I guess?).

I live north-east Canada. The one time I played outdoor was in early May, late at night. Heaters did the trick. I understand that it can be very different in November, I do. I still am pretty sure that if everyone wants this gig to work, it totally can be done.

 

[fdeck]

Sounds like you've got an "oh by the way" bandleader. These are the ones who often start by asking "are you available on this date," because they know you'd say no if you knew all of the conditions. And then, oh by the way, it's 6 hours away, and they want the band to set up the day before, and so forth.

So, you might be stuck playing the gig, but from now on, don't accept a gig without details. I never do. By now, most of my bandleaders are trained to just give me the information up front.

If the "oh by the way" is serious enough that it blows your schedule out of the water, then you can politely decline it.

 

[jdh3000]

I hate outdoor gigs... Never knowing what the weather will be.

Our BL books gigs without getting enough info such as, being outdoors, no stage cover... no stage... uuhg...

However, since I've agreed to play his gigs, I do it even if it's not ideal. This summer we played out in the middle of nowhere or what could've scarcely be called a stage with a small cover... Right after setting up, it came a torrential downpour... we hustled to push everything as far away from the edge and tarp it until the rain stopped.
I put up with this in order to stay in a group that plays a lot... I could refuse but next week I would be looking for another band, and might wind up with worse gigs... better the devil you know...

I have a cheap bass and amp that I use for all outdoor gigs for this reason. You can't risk ruining thousands of dollars of gear...
I agree with the posts that said rent a cheap rig, take a heater... then after it's over, throw the sax player into the river... actually just make it a rule that there will be no more such gigs... put it in writing so every prospective employer will know. Then if they are any surprises you can refuse to play within your rights.
We like to keep booking casual, but you can't with so much at stake.

 

[LBS-bass]

Sounds like you've got an "oh by the way" bandleader. These are the ones who often start by asking "are you available on this date," because they know you'd say no if you knew all of the conditions. And then, oh by the way, it's 6 hours away, and they want the band to set up the day before, and so forth.

So, you might be stuck playing the gig, but from now on, don't accept a gig without details. I never do. By now, most of my bandleaders are trained to just give me the information up front.

If the "oh by the way" is serious enough that it blows your schedule out of the water, then you can politely decline it.

This. 1000 times this. Bandleaders that don't nail down the important details and ask the important questions to make sure the gigs go as they should are the bane of my existence and I don't stick with them for very long.

 

[jnewmark]

Let me ask you a question. Unless you are playing for five grand or more, when was the last time you had a contract with any venue that actually went to and held up in a court?

I played in a band for 20 years, mostly weddings, private parties, corporate functions, etc. We had contracts for every gig, except night clubs, regardless of the pay scale. What contracts do for you is spell out these types of things, especially outdoor gigs. For example, we required shelter, namely a tent, or other structure, adequate AC supply, and a deposit in case the gig gets canceled. Its really not so much to help out in court, although we had a few of those, its to spell out the conditions for our employment, what was acceptable and what was not. We were a very popular local band, in high demand, so we typically had no problems. We did play an outdoor party once in April, under a tent with heaters, and it started to snow. It was blowing in the tent and we pulled the plug. No problem getting paid.

 

[buldog5151bass]

I played in a band for 20 years, mostly weddings, private parties, corporate functions, etc. We had contracts for every gig, except night clubs, regardless of the pay scale. What contracts do for you is spell out these types of things, especially outdoor gigs. For example, we required shelter, namely a tent, or other structure, adequate AC supply, and a deposit in case the gig gets canceled. Its really not so much to help out in court, although we had a few of those, its to spell out the conditions for our employment, what was acceptable and what was not. We were a very popular local band, in high demand, so we typically had no problems. We did play an outdoor party once in April, under a tent with heaters, and it started to snow. It was blowing in the tent and we pulled the plug. No problem getting paid.

Yes, and corporate gigs and weddings (or municipalities) are different. Dealing with most private parties and smaller venues you almost never have a written contract, nor do you have enough money to take a contract breach to court.

Repeat after me - a contract is only a piece of paper, it is not a magic spell.

 

[SAlcott]

Playing outdoors in cold conditions instruments with metal strings can cause permanent injury. I write from experience. Your fingertips get numb, you squeeze too hard, and before you're aware, you get hurt. My left index finger hasn't been the same since playing an outdoor gig in late October when the temp was in the low 40s. If BL is too dim to understand this, get a metal ice bucket, fill it with water and ice, and have him hold it with his bare hands as long as he can. That's how it feels for the bass and guitar players.

 

[jnewmark]

Yes, and corporate gigs and weddings (or municipalities) are different. Dealing with most private parties and smaller venues you almost never have a written contract, nor do you have enough money to take a contract breach to court.

Repeat after me - a contract is only a piece of paper, it is not a magic spell.

Well, we'll just have to disagree. Contracts always worked out for us, whether the gig was inside or out. When disputes arose, we always waved that " piece of paper " in their faces. Worked for us.

 

[Bassist4Eris]

Let's not run my BL out of town on a rail just yet. She's quite professional, a pleasure to work with, and as a BL myself I have nothing but respect for her. The "oh by the way" came from the guy who hired us for his party. BL didn't even book this particular gig (although she books most of them). Let's also remember that she's the one who spoke up to the guy today (see paragraph 4 of my OP).

 

[buldog5151bass]

Well, we'll just have to disagree. Contracts always worked out for us, whether the gig was inside or out. When disputes arose, we always waved that " piece of paper " in their faces. Worked for us.

Again, in a corporate setting, or the father of the bride, yes. You even said you didn't use them for night clubs. And no attorney is going to take an $800 contract case unless you pay them hourly. What, if Joe Homeowner doesn't give you a tent large enough, you are going to take him to court? Get real.

 

[jnewmark]

Again, in a corporate setting, or the father of the bride, yes. You even said you didn't use them for night clubs. And no attorney is going to take an $800 contract case unless you pay them hourly. What, if Joe Homeowner doesn't give you a tent large enough, you are going to take him to court? Get real.

No need to get snarky 'bro. We actually had an attorney in the band who was willing and able to go to bat for us. My experience is different than yours. Let it go.

 

[buldog5151bass]

No need to get snarky 'bro. We actually had an attorney in the band who was willing and able to go to bat for us. My experience is different than yours. Let it go.

Not getting snarky, just real from my POV.

Contracts are wonderful when the money involved warrants it, but too many people here think they are panacea.

Peace.

 

[lfmn16]

Yes, and corporate gigs and weddings (or municipalities) are different. Dealing with most private parties and smaller venues you almost never have a written contract, nor do you have enough money to take a contract breach to court.

Repeat after me - a contract is only a piece of paper, it is not a magic spell.

+1

The contract is only as good as the person signing it.

I've posted before. I had a friend that had a contract with a club for a gig. The club stiffed him so he took the owner/manager to small claims court. Completely unexpectedly, the guy actually showed up. The judge found in favor of my friend and ordered the guy to pay him the money. On the way out of court the guy said, "Screw you, I'm still not paying you." So much for contracts. Yea, he could have blah, blah, blah, blah, but for $350 it wasn't worth it. More time off of work, more aggravation.

I don't generally use contracts, but I will put the terms of the gig in an email to the venue if it's something out of the ordinary, particularly outdoor gigs - must provide the band with a cover from the sun, we have a time specified after which if we leave our houses to come to the gig, we get paid regardless of whether we play or not. There must be a flat surface for the drummer to set up on. The venue must provide power.

We haven't had a problem yet. Frankly, for what we get paid, I wouldn't get my panties in a knot if we got stiffed, although that hasn't happened to me in at least 25 years and it's only happened a couple of times in my career. Given that I've played well over 1,000 gigs, I'd say that's not too bad.

 

[lat]

Is there a way they (or y'all) could provide a tent/canopy with 3 of the sides closed & some heaters to knock the chill down? I've done gigs like this before & they were tolerable, probably cause they were lots of fun lol. But I understand your concerns being where I live isn't a hot spot this time of year.

Was just what I was going to say. A 3-walled tent with a heater, and your nice and toasty.

Some of these too, if needed...