Writing FROM the BassLine?

[merseymale]

At the risk of seeming argumentative: Sharing the "same" notes runs the risk of creating no harmony. Too many unisons = too much lack of interest.
Rather, for the treble clef line and the bass clef line to harmonize they must both be derived from a specific, intentional pitch collection. That might be a scale or a mode or a chord or a series or a structure...some unit of pitches that are designed to evoke a particular harmonic sound when combined.
Then you can have a bass line and a melody (and a counterline or two or ten) that may never play the exact same note simultaneously -- i.e., there might be no unisons ever -- but will always evoke the desired harmony.

thanks
I guess the way I was hoping this would work would be to later analyse the BassLine; work-out the names of each note & narrow down the possible chords from infinite down to 7 or 8 or something…

 

[merseymale]

I have done it. Just be aware of the what the bass is doing at any particular point. Keeping the riffs in 1 keys makes it a lot easier. It takes some experimentation and some understanding of theory but the results are always unique and usually more interesting than what you get starting on the guitar.

That sounds hopeful, thanks… I hear that the Cure, for instance, start from the bass but not sure how to progress…

 

[merseymale]

Never done it, but the first thought that comes to mind is to figure out your time signature and listen for which notes land on the first beat and assign that chord. If it doesn’t sound good, think about more frequent chord changes or other chord options that share the note. Think about where things resolve and the key and whether it has a major or minor feel. Depending on your baseline and its harmonic pull your options may be obvious or wide open.

Thanks that’s helpful

 

[merseymale]

Every note you play is the bass note of a guitar chord.

To play a chord on bass, you hold 3 or more notes in that particular chord. Which is the same exact way you play that particular chord on a guitar. You just have less strings to work with.

Because of the nature of bass guitar, chords tend to be overkill, and very muddled. What I do, is either play the root and high third, or just the octave and high 3rd. Or, the 5th, 8th, and third. Or, the 5th and 7th.

In other words, I either play two high strings, or the low string root and a high string.

Thanks!
I kind of want guitar or keyboards etc to handle the actual chords but Which chords is my problem

 

[merseymale]

I think in most music, you start with the melody, then the chords, then create a bass line that reconciles the two. The bass provides the musical logic for the chord changes with rhythm based on the cadence of the melody.

Yep but traditionally people also like to bend/break rules too

 

[merseymale]

Right -- but that's what makes this such an interesting question. What if you start with a bass line and have to work "backwards" to the chords and melody?

This is of interest to me because I often come up with ideas for bass lines when I'm noodling -- a very important part of practice, IMHO -- and would like to start working on turning some of these into songs for my mostly-originals band. I don't play guitar, so I can't (easily) just start with chords; however, I do have a pretty good understanding of chord construction, harmony, and related music theory. I'll be looking forward to what kinds of ideas people have to suggest here.

I've got some ideas based on what's been said so far, but need to think about them a bit....

 

[merseymale]

Almost any melody or bass line will imply certain chords. There is really only one difference between harmonizing a bass line vs a melody, which is that the chord tone you choose for the strong / tension resolving notes is generally going be the root. As opposed to a lead melody where chord tones chosen are more likely to be 3rds or 5ths or upper tones.

When I have zero idea about what chords to throw over a line I ask:
- what are the strong / emphasized /tension releasing notes?
- does the the strong notes outline a scale I recognize?
- is there a tonic I can identify?
- if a tonic is identifiable, what do the I, IV, and V chords sound like over the line?

the I, IV, and V chords are the first ones to try since as far as 7 chords of functional harmony are concerned, each chord behaves as ether the I (I, iii) , V (V, vii dim) or IV (IV, ii, vi).

But these are just guides for ideas to try, at the end of the day its your ears of course.

T H A N K S!!

 

[merseymale]

I'd say to not overthink it. Typically, (depending on any syncopation) the first note in the bass line might be the root of the chord. What you may have done here is write a song where the bass is dominant and the guitar is supporting. Work through those roots, to the chord progression and you'll have a starting point for the guitar rhythm. It might be a bit of trial and error to figure out what works and you might learn some new chords in the process.

Much Appreciated

 

[merseymale]

I think in most music, you start with the melody, then the chords, then create a bass line that reconciles the two. The bass provides the musical logic for the chord changes with rhythm based on the cadence of the melody.

Yep BUT how d’ya go about the opposite..?

 

[merseymale]

My writing is about 50-50 starting with a bass line or starting with changes.

When I start with a bass line, I first make sure the meter is right, e.g. usually an even number of bars. Then I harmonize the line (define the chords) on piano. From there, I add melodic elements, often with some amount counterpoint with the bass.

Harmonizing a bass line is no different than harmonizing any melody.

Thanks but how to Harmonise those Chords, please?

 

[Malcolm35]

Thanks but how to Harmonise those Chords, please?

I've started this reply and erased it many times. To answer your question, I would need to know the following.

What Key is being used?
That gives me the chords that could be used.
From there I decide on the chord progression this song will use.
That's step one.

As to which chord is a long story. Ask Google about tonal Harmony. Do not go down the rabbit hole on modal harmony until you understand tonal harmony.

Good luck.

 

[Malcolm35]

Or is this what you are asking about.

Harmonizing Chords

C Major chord = C-E-G or R-3-5.
For a C Minor chord flat the E for R-b3-5.

.

Ask Google for a chord spelling chart.

Chord Spellings | PDF | Chord (Music) | Music Theory

 

[LBS-bass]

Right -- but that's what makes this such an interesting question. What if you start with a bass line and have to work "backwards" to the chords and melody?

Well... your bass note is often the 1, or root. Start there. Your next note in the chord is a third, so play major third, which is one string over and one fret down. Does that seem right? Maybe you want a minor third, instead. Move down one more fret. Choose the major or minor. Add the fifth which is one string over and two frets up. That is your basic chord. It's either root-major or root-minor. You can add more to it, but this is what you need to begin to define a chord.

The problem is that these things don't sound all that great played together on a bass (most of the time) so you probably want a chording instrument to make them sound right. Play those notes on a piano, or play that chord on a guitar. Then repeat this process for all the measures in your riff, as many times as the chords change.

 

[Pings Bass]

Thanks but how to Harmonise those Chords, please?

Well let's assume you're familiar with the basics of western harmony and theory. Your bass line melody will move between tonal centers. Like if it's the key of C major, you'll probably start and end on some kind of C major chord (C, C6, CMaj7).

Find and identify the parts of your bass line that want are in a different tonality than the tonic. Try different chords under these parts until it sounds right. Sometimes the bass notes aren't chord tones! Use a circle of fifths for reference. In C, your tonal centers will naturally tend to C, F, G7, Dm, Am and Em.

Once I have the tonal centers worked out, I work in transitions between tonal centers, which are often just turnarounds or cadences. This can be nothing but ii-V7-I, or you can get more complicated. So the first thing I would do is the turnaround in the last bar. I want it to lead back to the tonic C, so I'll just keep it simple and do Dmi7(b5) G7. If that doesn't fit with the bass part, is your bass part resolving? It's it doing something chromatic instead? Adjust your turnaround accordingly. Or fix the bass. Maybe it wants to modulate? Do a ii-V of the key it's modulating to.

So say I have a bridge in Am, in the last bar of the section before it, I put in Bm7(b5) Em7 which leads nicely to an Am6 for my bridge.

Remember chord changes aren't copywritable. You can start with something simple and universal like a 12-bar blues, and embellish it with substitutions and turnarounds, or something in the 32-bar standard AABA cannon. The changes from I Got Rhythm never get old, and can support all kinds of melodic invention. You're not going to write changes that haven't been done before; it's a finite palette. So borrow freely from stuff you know sounds good.

 

[Malcolm35]

Well let's assume you're familiar with the basics of western harmony and theory....... So borrow freely from stuff you know sounds good.

Good post. Copy and keep it in your "good stuff" files.

 

[SoCal80s]

Here's my response in a similar thread.

 

[merseymale]

I've started this reply and erased it many times. To answer your question, I would need to know the following.

What Key is being used?
That gives me the chords that could be used.
From there I decide on the chord progression this song will use.
That's step one.

As to which chord is a long story. Ask Google about tonal Harmony. Do not go down the rabbit hole on modal harmony until you understand tonal harmony.

Good luck.

Thanks!

I suppose the better idea (to illustrate what I’m talking about) would be this:

Choose a favourite bassline- let’s say MONEY by Pink Floyd and then come up with different, alternative chords, but explain how you’re coming to these choices

 

[merseymale]

Or is this what you are asking about.

Harmonizing Chords

C Major chord = C-E-G or R-3-5.
For a C Minor chord flat the E for R-b3-5.

.

Ask Google for a chord spelling chart.

Chord Spellings | PDF | Chord (Music) | Music Theory

Nope BUT thank you anyway.

Appears you’re coming up with the chords first, and using the individual notes of those chords to suggest BassLines?

I’m trying to do the exact opposite.

 

[merseymale]

Well... your bass note is often the 1, or root. Start there. Your next note in the chord is a third, so play major third, which is one string over and one fret down. Does that seem right? Maybe you want a minor third, instead. Move down one more fret. Choose the major or minor. Add the fifth which is one string over and two frets up. That is your basic chord. It's either root-major or root-minor. You can add more to it, but this is what you need to begin to define a chord.

The problem is that these things don't sound all that great played together on a bass (most of the time) so you probably want a chording instrument to make them sound right. Play those notes on a piano, or play that chord on a guitar. Then repeat this process for all the measures in your riff, as many times as the chords change.

This seems like a good idea, but beyond the root note, it all gets a little bit muddy for me to think about.

Let me put it this way:
I’ve come up with a BassLine, for instance, that is, let’s say,

A A, B, C,D, D

… My question is how would one come up with a chord sequence on a guitar or piano etc that would effectively go over this and under the melody (perversely coming up with melodies from chord sequences is relatively easy for me -Go Figure!)

 

[merseymale]

Well let's assume you're familiar with the basics of western harmony and theory. Your bass line melody will move between tonal centers. Like if it's the key of C major, you'll probably start and end on some kind of C major chord (C, C6, CMaj7).

Find and identify the parts of your bass line that want are in a different tonality than the tonic. Try different chords under these parts until it sounds right. Sometimes the bass notes aren't chord tones! Use a circle of fifths for reference. In C, your tonal centers will naturally tend to C, F, G7, Dm, Am and Em.

Once I have the tonal centers worked out, I work in transitions between tonal centers, which are often just turnarounds or cadences. This can be nothing but ii-V7-I, or you can get more complicated. So the first thing I would do is the turnaround in the last bar. I want it to lead back to the tonic C, so I'll just keep it simple and do Dmi7(b5) G7. If that doesn't fit with the bass part, is your bass part resolving? It's it doing something chromatic instead? Adjust your turnaround accordingly. Or fix the bass. Maybe it wants to modulate? Do a ii-V of the key it's modulating to.

So say I have a bridge in Am, in the last bar of the section before it, I put in Bm7(b5) Em7 which leads nicely to an Am6 for my bridge.

Remember chord changes aren't copywritable. You can start with something simple and universal like a 12-bar blues, and embellish it with substitutions and turnarounds, or something in the 32-bar standard AABA cannon. The changes from I Got Rhythm never get old, and can support all kinds of melodic invention. You're not going to write changes that haven't been done before; it's a finite palette. So borrow freely from stuff you know sounds good.

Thanks so much for this, although I feel it doesn’t actually address the original question, It certainly is a good way of starting to write songs I believe