Writing FROM the BassLine?

[merseymale]

I like writing songs, and I tend to do so on guitar because I know way more guitar chords than bass chords!

however, I like, when I noodle around on bass, coming up with interesting basslines that I want to incorporate into songs, but I don’t know how because I didn’t make them from an initial chord sequence first…

Does anyone know how to go about building chords and Melody, once the baseline has already been written first?

Are there any links or videos to this process?

Thanks everyone, I look forward to your replies…!

 

[Malcolm35]

I like writing songs, and I tend to do so on guitar because I know way more guitar chords than bass chords! Major point - what is the difference in a guitar chord and a bass chord?. however, I like, when I noodle around on bass, coming up with interesting basslines that I want to incorporate into songs, but I don’t know how because I didn’t make them from an initial chord sequence first… Does anyone know how to go about building chords and Melody, once the baseline has already been written first?

Good question. What are you basing your bass line upon? Seems like you are relying on something that sounds good - with no understanding of why it is sounding good. Little more information and the guys will help.

IMO For the treble clef line and the bass clef line to harmonize they must share some like notes. My point, it sounds like you are writing the bass line first and not knowing how to develop the harmony for what you have already written. To do that I need some idea of what structure you have already used.

That gets into a can of worms I'll let the melody guys talk on. My answer revolves around both lines sharing some of the same notes - so need to know what key, scale, or something you used for the melody before I can answer the rest of your question.

Good luck.

 

[Bob_Ross]

IMO For the treble clef line and the bass clef line to harmonize they must share some like notes. ...[snip]... My answer revolves around both lines sharing some of the same notes

At the risk of seeming argumentative: Sharing the "same" notes runs the risk of creating no harmony. Too many unisons = too much lack of interest.
Rather, for the treble clef line and the bass clef line to harmonize they must both be derived from a specific, intentional pitch collection. That might be a scale or a mode or a chord or a series or a structure...some unit of pitches that are designed to evoke a particular harmonic sound when combined.
Then you can have a bass line and a melody (and a counterline or two or ten) that may never play the exact same note simultaneously -- i.e., there might be no unisons ever -- but will always evoke the desired harmony.

 

[TheArchitect]

I like writing songs, and I tend to do so on guitar because I know way more guitar chords than bass chords!

however, I like, when I noodle around on bass, coming up with interesting basslines that I want to incorporate into songs, but I don’t know how because I didn’t make them from an initial chord sequence first…

Does anyone know how to go about building chords and Melody, once the baseline has already been written first?

Are there any links or videos to this process?

Thanks everyone, I look forward to your replies…!

I have done it. Just be aware of the what the bass is doing at any particular point. Keeping the riffs in 1 keys makes it a lot easier. It takes some experimentation and some understanding of theory but the results are always unique and usually more interesting than what you get starting on the guitar.

 

[bassGtar]

I like writing songs, and I tend to do so on guitar because I know way more guitar chords than bass chords!

however, I like, when I noodle around on bass, coming up with interesting basslines that I want to incorporate into songs, but I don’t know how because I didn’t make them from an initial chord sequence first…

Does anyone know how to go about building chords and Melody, once the baseline has already been written first?

Are there any links or videos to this process?

Thanks everyone, I look forward to your replies…!

Never done it, but the first thought that comes to mind is to figure out your time signature and listen for which notes land on the first beat and assign that chord. If it doesn’t sound good, think about more frequent chord changes or other chord options that share the note. Think about where things resolve and the key and whether it has a major or minor feel. Depending on your baseline and it’s harmonic pull your options may be obvious or wide open.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I like writing songs, and I tend to do so on guitar because I know way more guitar chords than bass chords!

however, I like, when I noodle around on bass, coming up with interesting basslines that I want to incorporate into songs, but I don’t know how because I didn’t make them from an initial chord sequence first…

Does anyone know how to go about building chords and Melody, once the baseline has already been written first?

Are there any links or videos to this process?

Thanks everyone, I look forward to your replies…!

Every note you play is the bass note of a guitar chord.

To play a chord on bass, you hold 3 or more notes in that particular chord. Which is the same exact way you play that particular chord on a guitar. You just have less strings to work with.

Because of the nature of bass guitar, chords tend to be overkill, and very muddled. What I do, is either play the root and high third, or just the octave and high 3rd. Or, the 5th, 8th, and third. Or, the 5th and 7th.

In other words, I either play two high strings, or the low string root and a high string.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I like writing songs, and I tend to do so on guitar because I know way more guitar chords than bass chords!

however, I like, when I noodle around on bass, coming up with interesting basslines that I want to incorporate into songs, but I don’t know how because I didn’t make them from an initial chord sequence first…

Does anyone know how to go about building chords and Melody, once the baseline has already been written first?

Are there any links or videos to this process?

Thanks everyone, I look forward to your replies…!

I think in most music, you start with the melody, then the chords, then create a bass line that reconciles the two. The bass provides the musical logic for the chord changes with rhythm based on the cadence of the melody.

 

[Lobster11]

I think in most music, you start with the melody, then the chords, then create a bass line that reconciles the two. The bass provides the musical logic for the chord changes with rhythm based on the cadence of the melody.

Right -- but that's what makes this such an interesting question. What if you start with a bass line and have to work "backwards" to the chords and melody?

This is of interest to me because I often come up with ideas for bass lines when I'm noodling -- a very important part of practice, IMHO -- and would like to start working on turning some of these into songs for my mostly-originals band. I don't play guitar, so I can't (easily) just start with chords; however, I do have a pretty good understanding of chord construction, harmony, and related music theory. I'll be looking forward to what kinds of ideas people have to suggest here.

I've got some ideas based on what's been said so far, but need to think about them a bit....

 

[Pings Bass]

My writing is about 50-50 starting with a bass line or starting with changes.

When I start with a bass line, I first make sure the meter is right, e.g. usually an even number of bars. Then I harmonize the line (define the chords) on piano. From there, I add melodic elements, often with some amount counterpoint with the bass.

Harmonizing a bass line is no different than harmonizing any melody.

 

[Bajo Clarkko]

From about 1999-2002, I played guitar in a 3 piece instrumental rock combo. The bass player was REALLY good. (His main influences were Jack Bruce, Chris Squire and Geddy Lee.)

More often than not, I’d come up with the initial idea for the song, and he’d compose a bass line. However, on the occasions in which he’d come up with a bass line first, it would force my guitar playing into new directions, and I’d have to think up things that I otherwise wouldn’t have done. Some of our more interesting things were written that way.

Sometimes we’d play unison stuff, call and respond arrangements, counterpoint and even odd Wishbone Ash harmonies. (Think: the first part of FUBB, from the “There’s The Rub” album.)

We’ve lost track of each other since then, but I’d jump at the chance to work with him again. Ahh, good times….

 

[FullumMusic]

Starting with the bass line, go to the melody/lead vocal line next. The notes of the main melody of the song will hint at a few chord progressions and give context to the notes in the bass line. That will narrow down the bass line from a sequence of notes to certain intervals within a harmonic structure. The rest of the harmonic structure can be stacked between the melody and bass. Comparing the bass to the melody makes it easier to not always have the notes in the bass line just be the root, and you can voice the rest of the notes in the harmonic stack in appropriate/creative/interesting ways.

That's not necessarily THEEE way to do it. But it's a way, and it's a nice systematic way to not have to reinvent the wheel, and each step informs your next compositional step.

Also, don't be afraid to change the bass line once you start adding parts. Sometimes we get married to cool sounding ideas that work on their own but really need to be altered to work with the rest of the instruments. When producing electronic music i often start with a synth bass line that sounds really cool and inspires all the other things. But then i add vocals or some other musical elements and maybe that cool synth bass doesn't quite work anymore. So i have to change the bass line, the thing the entire rest of the song was built off of to make it fit. And a lot of times i nix it completely. I think my electronic music is fairly well composed (and i'll gladly accept others might disagree - i'm not the BEST composer in the world). I credit a lot of that to ruthlessly deleting really cool things that just don't work in the song anymore.

 

[mambo4]

Does anyone know how to go about building chords and Melody, once the baseline has already been written first?

Almost any melody or bass line will imply certain chords. There is really only one difference between harmonizing a bass line vs a melody, which is that the chord tone you choose for the strong / tension resolving notes is generally going be the root. As opposed to a lead melody where chord tones chosen are more likely to be 3rds or 5ths or upper tones.

When I have zero idea about what chords to throw over a line I ask:
- what are the strong / emphasized /tension releasing notes?
- does the the strong notes outline a scale I recognize?
- is there a tonic I can identify?
- if a tonic is identifiable, what do the I, IV, and V chords sound like over the line?

the I, IV, and V chords are the first ones to try since as far as 7 chords of functional harmony are concerned, each chord behaves as ether the I (I, iii) , V (V, vii dim) or IV (IV, ii, vi).

But these are just guides for ideas to try, at the end of the day its your ears of course.

 

[Element Zero]

I used to compose. Nothing crazy. Mostly a lot of layering. But most of the time, I’d come up with a bass line that had some kind of movement to it and over time I’d begin to hear notes and chords above the bass and I’d just go from there. On my SoundCloud.com/mouseonbass page (which I haven’t updated or added to in forever) has some prime examples of how I used to write.

In Power of Suggestion at the about the 3:20 mark is what I wrote first, then the ending, then the song just filled in and around those 2 main parts. I love tubular bells lol.

Horns!!! Is a good example of writing the bass line first first and then through much repetition, hearing the note up top that led to the actual horn “melody”.

 

[Egg250]

I'd say to not overthink it. Typically, (depending on any syncopation) the first note in the bass line might be the root of the chord. What you may have done here is write a song where the bass is dominant and the guitar is supporting. Work through those roots, to the chord progression and you'll have a starting point for the guitar rhythm. It might be a bit of trial and error to figure out what works and you might learn some new chords in the process.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Right -- but that's what makes this such an interesting question. What if you start with a bass line and have to work "backwards" to the chords and melody?

This is of interest to me because I often come up with ideas for bass lines when I'm noodling -- a very important part of practice, IMHO -- and would like to start working on turning some of these into songs for my mostly-originals band. I don't play guitar, so I can't (easily) just start with chords; however, I do have a pretty good understanding of chord construction, harmony, and related music theory. I'll be looking forward to what kinds of ideas people have to suggest here.

I've got some ideas based on what's been said so far, but need to think about them a bit....

It’s very awkward to do otherwise. At least for me.

Hal Blaine the drummer for the wrecking, needed to study the vocal parts before he would lay done his rhythm pockets. There is a pulse with the melody and in most cases, the bass and drums are going to need to be supportive.

 

[bassplace]

I don’t have good advice. But you have to be able to hear bass line and the vocal melody. And sometimes the chord change over that. For me just simple melodies. Either comes from noodling a bass line or from a vocal melody. I do best when I’m in wmedatative state just in my head. For me that’s when I’m on a road trip camping around the country, no radio. Tune everything out but the landscape

 

[Bill Murray]

This is way more common than people think.

A bass line itself will tell you what the chords are (to an extent). You just have to slow it down and analyze what you are doing.

My advice is to first figure out what key you’re in, then figure out what the changes are. Once that’s done you can strum some basic chords over it and then you’ll get a feel for what kind of voicings would work better.

 

[Freddy T]

If you can improv melodies to your guitar chords already then you are set. A bass riff is generally an open ended chord until a multitude of its notes causes it to zero in on a specific chord that limits (defines) it's melodic possibilities (chord type). The riff may, but won't always, define the boundaries where the melody sounds subjectively correct and good. For your own music you can bake the melodic limits in from the beginning by using enough notes to spell your chord, otherwise you can leave the melodic landscape more open ended for interpretation and establish it later by keeping your riff sparse and less defined.

Try singing known melodies over chords on guitar; toggle your vocalization between melody and bass notes. Pay attention to the chord types as you do so and you will begin to feel (hear) how the melody, bass and chord extensions work together in musical tunes. This will prep you for improv singing against only a bassline.

Then work up your bass riff, memorize it, and collapse it to the most basic roots in a straight meter. Improv vocally to the straight meter version of your riff until you're happy with the progression. Record your vocal and bass riff separately so your brain doesn't explode trying to do everything at once. Work out the chords later (dominant, minor, lydian, straight major, or slight alteration of any of the above) to communicate with other players and/or to advance the iterations of your tune.

tldr: listen to Sam Cooke, skip any complex harmonic analysis, and cut and paste his melodies over anything you play to understand how free genius melodicism works

 

[Malcolm35]

Just a thought, some music is meant to be danced to and some music is not. Country is danced to where Praise is listened to. Country would use a basic three or four chord movement, where Praise would use any chord that fit the melody, and message being put forward..

Country is built from the chord baseline and Praise is built from the melody line -- IMO.

It's a chicken or egg thing with danceability playing a big part of where you start writing your baseline.

 

[merseymale]

Seems like you are relying on something that sounds good - with no understanding of why it is sounding good

YUP!!
That’s about my speed!

basically, when I get hit by inspiration, so to speak, I find engaging in my analytical side just stops the BassLine so I was looking to record these snippets on my phone, and then later form chords around them, and it’s that bit that I was a bit sketchy on…