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X-Bass - Experimental 3 Pickup Bass

#121
Flux Jetson said:
(RE: the 24th fret deal) ....perhaps that's just where it ended up after testing locations to produce the desired scoop.

As good a place as any other I suppose.
Click to expand...

Exactly my thinking.
It's a known 'sweet spot' from more than 1 classic bass, and routinely gets made impossible these days by the modern insistence on 24 fret necks. Add a general disdain for Gibson's poor implementation of matching pickup design to location = Mud.

So let's discuss the location of the Rick bridge pickup.
Between a Fender P and a J's bridge, but by how much?
 
#122
KeithAlanK said:
Exactly my thinking.
It's a known 'sweet spot' from more than 1 classic bass, and routinely gets made impossible these days by the modern insistence on 24 fret necks. Add a general disdain for Gibson's poor implementation of matching pickup design to location = Mud.

So let's discuss the location of the Rick bridge pickup.
Between a Fender P and a J's bridge, but by how much?
Click to expand...
I'm starting at F36. It's a good "landmark" to start at and not only that, that is where I have actually observed Ricks to be at. Here's a table of measurements I have taken over the years.

**********************************************
RICKENBACKER 4001-4003:

Bridge to Bridge pickup = 4.25" roughly observed.
Bridge to Neck pickup = 8.25" roughly observed.

33.25" scale - divisions:
1-oct = 16.625"
2-oct = 8.3125"
3-oct = 4.15625"
4-oct = 2.078125"
**********************************************
P-BASS:

Bridge to E/A pickup = 6.75"
Bridge to D/G pickup = 5.25"
(Average = 6.00" - roughly splitting 2nd and 3rd octave)

34" scale - divisions:
1-oct = 17.00"
2-oct = 8.5"
3-oct = 4.25"
4-oct = 2.125"
**********************************************

J-BASS:

Bridge to Bridge pickup = 2.5"
Bridge to Neck pickup = 6.125" - same as Pbass.

34" scale - divisions:
1-oct = 17.00"
2-oct = 8.5"
3-oct = 4.25"
4-oct = 2.125"
**********************************************
CORT A4:

Bridge to Bridge pickup = 2.125" (at centerline) same as J-bass bridge pickup.
Bridge to Neck pickup = 5.25" (at centerline) same as P-bass treble pickup (D/G strings)

34" scale - divisions:
1-oct = 17.00"
2-oct = 8.5"
3-oct = 4.25"
4-oct = 2.125"
**********************************************

MUSIC MAN STINGRAY:
Bridge to pickup = 4.25" (same as Ric bridge pickup)
 
#125
I go in to the VA today to see my VA doctor about a super painful "bone spur" in my left shoulder. If it is left unattended to it will end up cutting through super vital tendons that make a person able to move their arm. If that happens, no more bass playing for the rest of my life.

So today marks APPT #1 ... a consultation ... then my guess is the next one will be X-rays here at our local Marine base (probably a week or so from today), then my next guess would be having an MRI done at the VA hospital 300 miles from here (probably a month or so after the X-rays), then the next guess would be another consult, then hopefully repair surgery.

The surgery would involve cutting open the shoulder area, and then somehow shaving off or ~grinding down~ the spur of bone that has grown in my shoulder joint and is tearing in to very important tendons and ligaments that are responsible for arm movement. Once the bone spur (think of a sharp growth of bone) is removed/ground down/shaved down it should ... SHOULD ... be ok for the remainder of my life (I'll be 53 this September.)

In any case, this whole situation is robbing me of precious time I need to complete my ongoing projects. Music is all I have in my life. I have no other form of happiness, no other form of recreation, no other "outlet" or social activity. Take that away and I'm just a living consumer, breathing air, eating food, and producing nothing that adds to the "zeitgeist" of humanity. Making music is my only "proof of life" .. it's the only thing I will leave behind that proves I was even here! My wife and I have been together since 1979, but we never had kids. So making music and recording it, giving it to my friends and relatives, is the only thing that I will leave behind that proves I ever existed.

So ok ... enough whining. Just thought I'd let everyone that is following this (and my X-Rig project) what I have going on that may affect this project.

Fluxtard.
 
#129
Flux Jetson said:
I'm starting at F36. It's a good "landmark" to start at and not only that, that is where I have actually observed Ricks to be at. Here's a table of measurements I have taken over the years.

**********************************************
RICKENBACKER 4001-4003:

Bridge to Bridge pickup = 4.25" roughly observed.
Bridge to Neck pickup = 8.25" roughly observed.

33.25" scale - divisions:
1-oct = 16.625"
2-oct = 8.3125"
3-oct = 4.15625"
4-oct = 2.078125"

...
Click to expand...
Forgive me if I missed these, but:

Question #1: isn't measuring from 12th fret to pickup more accurate than bridge to pickup? Bridge position isn't necessarily precise, because some styles change: for example, the early MM Stingray bridges contained string mutes, then (for awhile) the mutes were eliminated and the bridge shortened. You probably don't mean the saddles, because placement varies from string to string, and even per a specific string depending on intonation.

Question #2: when measuring to the pickup, do you mean the edge of the pickup or the center? For apples-to-apples comparisons this doesn't matter, but if you're going to put a J-pickup in the Stingray location then you probably want center, right?

I'm not trying to nitpick, just curious. Pickup placement is important, but absolute precision isn't crucial.

P.S. Sorry about your shoulder, I hope the docs can fix that for you without too much pain or inconvenience for you.
 
#130
Fuzzbass said:
Forgive me if I missed these, but:

Question #1: isn't measuring from 12th fret to pickup more accurate than bridge to pickup? Bridge position isn't necessarily precise, because some styles change: for example, the early MM Stingray bridges contained string mutes, then (for awhile) the mutes were eliminated and the bridge shortened. You probably don't mean the saddles, because placement varies from string to string, and even per a specific string depending on intonation.

Question #2: when measuring to the pickup, do you mean the edge of the pickup or the center? For apples-to-apples comparisons this doesn't matter, but if you're going to put a J-pickup in the Stingray location then you probably want center, right?

I'm not trying to nitpick, just curious. Pickup placement is important, but absolute precision isn't crucial.

P.S. Sorry about your shoulder, I hope the docs can fix that for you without too much pain or inconvenience for you.
Click to expand...
Q1: Yup, of course it is. But I did it the way I did it and I have to live with the results. I measured from the nut to the bridge to determine where the scale length ended up at on the bridge itself. Then I used that mark to measure from. Of course the 12th fret is far better ... but as I said I did what I did and now I have to live with that.

Q2. Centerline of poles. On the MM (or any humbucker) I went to the center right between the centerlines of the two pole sets.

SHOULDER: Yup .... big huge enormous fekkin SUCKAGE! I can't even sleep ... I'm getting less than 2hrs per night. Makes me grumpy and anti-social. Technical issues are VERY tough (reading schematics, absorbing tech info, soldering circuit boards, wiring devices, and so on). The pain meds don't help much, just add to the insomnia and grumpy attitude. I've learned to avoid the forum when I'm a shytehead ... I just tend to annoy people.

I just want this over. I have other physical issues (my right shoulder/neck/back ... 75% disabled 5+ years now) and I simply do not need this crap.

Happy Happy Joy Joy. :hyper:
 
#131
Muzak Man said:
Man, that sucks!
Life seems to enjoy throwing tragedies around :(
Hope you'll be alright, would be sad to see this EPIC thread die without conclusion.
Click to expand...
Totally NOT happening. I'll finish this, bet on it.

I've been designing a "no-wear bass" for about two years now. I've been anticipating the further deterioration of my body for some time, and I've been designing a bass (and a guitar) that I do not "wear". It is actually mounted on a super rigid frame and set up in that perfect position with the neck angled just-so. The body will be totally reconfigured to retain wooden mass but be shaped like no other stringed instrument. Headless as well.

Variations on the idea include a double neck guitar/bass, both headless. All of the electronics in rack mounted control units that are inches from my hands, the bass actually sortof facing a 12U rack unit with the bass itself less than six inches from the rack's controls. So I can super swiftly make adjustments mid-riff. There are major advantages to having the bass very rigidly mounted on a frame that you sortof cozy-up to and position your body next to. You have this unmoving instrument that provides a super stable platform. Certain riffs done with the neck-hand are MUCH easier to do when the neck is as rigid as a tree trunk. I can even play the keyboards while leaning against the fixed-position of this instrument. The bass may even be sortof swung out of the way and locked into a non-use location that is still playable in the out-of-the-way location because it is set up almost like a stand-up bass.

I've been messing with the idea for years. It may come down to that. It won't be any "worse" than playing keyboards, the guitar/bass is just permanently mounted in an optimum position, just like a keyboard is.

Imagine sitting in front of a keyboard (you can fake it by sitting at your desk). Now imagine your bass in the optimum position between your body and the desk's edge .. sortof like if you were going to play the bass while typing on th ecomputer keyboard. Now imagine that bass being hard-mounted in that location so you don't need to hold on to it to keep it positioned or wear a strap to keep it right wear you need it. Done!

Anyhow .. rambling again.

I'll finish this project, it just may take longer than hoped.
 
#133
I wish you the best of luck!

Although I hope you won't need it, there's still an option for one-armed bass playing: Chapman stick (or other tapping instrument). They look cool and sound awesome. Tony Levin has popularized the instrument for bass lines over the last few decades.
 
#134
howardcano said:
I wish you the best of luck!

Although I hope you won't need it, there's still an option for one-armed bass playing: Chapman stick (or other tapping instrument). They look cool and sound awesome. Tony Levin has popularized the instrument for bass lines over the last few decades.
Click to expand...
I've thought about that thing A LOT. My hard-mounted bass idea is sortof inspired in several ways by the stick. I have a Peter Gabriel DVD with Tony Levin in it, it's a live show (the one where Peter and his daughter walk upside down in that contraption over the stage and Peter also rides his bicycle all the way around the stage for entire performance of Salsbury). I saw Tony use the stick for that show, very impressive. After that I looked into it. I even built a special compressor for a fella that uses one of thise once.

I'll have to do up a Walt Disney Production mockup (aka "Mickey Mouse" up a mockup) of the basic idea I have of this gadget and shoot a few pics to post them. I've even sortof envisioned a kindof "cockpit" idea where everything is in immediate reach and arranged with ergonomics being priority 1. Kindof like how advanced fighter jets cockpits are set up where everything is designed around interfacing with the human body, such that it is.

Even if I come out of this shoulder thing ok it may be something I do anyway. It would be great to have my bass all positioned and ready in a perfect spot with all of it's special controls and FX all set up mere inches from the strings, just exactly how a keyboard player sets up a good synth system. So I can walk right up to the bass, lean into it a bit and everything is perfectly positioned and on line.

Thanks for the well wishes Howard. I'm pretty spooked about this crap. I hope to hear from the VA soon about a resched on the consultation visit. That has to happen to get the ball rolling. I have PT again this afternoon too. UGh ... that is always so painful. I'm screwed for hours after each session.

Man oh man listen to me complain! You'd think I have it worse than anyone! I remind myself every day that there are many millions that have it FAR FAR worse than I do.

That having been said, it's time I stop whining about it!

Thanks again Howard.

Fluxoid.
 
#136
My sympathies with having to deal with the VA for something major like that. I have received some very good care through them, but sometimes it can be assemblyline-ish or even madhouse-ish.

I hope it all works out well for you, and expeditiously too.
 
#138
Flux Jetson said:
I've thought about that thing A LOT. My hard-mounted bass idea is sortof inspired in several ways by the stick... I'll have to do up a Walt Disney Production mockup (aka "Mickey Mouse" up a mockup) of the basic idea I have of this gadget and shoot a few pics to post them.
Click to expand...

You should consider some type of isolation system built into the mount. I fiddled with a similar arrangement myself; it worked well on a solid (concrete) floor, but as soon as I tried it on a stage, there was so much transmission of vibration from the plywood floor up through the mount that it made playing the thing, um, disconcerting (pun intended).
 
#139
howardcano said:
You should consider some type of isolation system built into the mount. I fiddled with a similar arrangement myself; it worked well on a solid (concrete) floor, but as soon as I tried it on a stage, there was so much transmission of vibration from the plywood floor up through the mount that it made playing the thing, um, disconcerting (pun intended).
Click to expand...
Ah! Right! Very good advice! I'll add that to my notes.

Thank you. :)
 

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