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Double Bass Yamahiko Double Bass Pickup

Interesting, the Fishman BP-100 and Fishman Full Circle need 10 Meg Ohm loads to function.

This may be what they recommend, but in practice I haven’t found this to be true for the FC. I find that it sounds best with a 5 Meg Ohm input impedance, and when I go above that, the bottom end sounds really fake and rubbery and too tubby. I have since learned that lowering input impedance acts as a sort of HP filter for a piezo signal.

Anyway, IME I have found that 1 MOhm is too little for the FC and 10 MOhm or above is too much. It’s a sensitive flower!
 
I also am going to apologize to continue this De-rail, but I have the Stat-B, I have both the single element and even the double element versions. I found that the Stat-B appeared to be a better sound than the Realist, but not the exact clarity of a microphone. I'd like to see/hear a video of that if that is the case for some others. Because here is my proof.

If you listen with quality headphones to my videos, I think you'll notice the difference between these two sounds.

1st Video is the Ischell and 2nd video is the Stat-b with the same High-end Amp and High-end Cabinet. only the Pickups where switched out to show you the difference.

You tell me which one has more clarity?

Perhaps some of you with the Yamahiko can put up videos like such and then we can really hear the difference.





Ischell, hands down!
 
Yes Chris
THat is why I want some device with a variable imp. I have a Felix with 1 10 and 20 and an amp with 1 and 10. The amp with 10 sounds thicker then the preamp with 20.
But I am really into this new red box which seems to make the whole point moot by massaging the signal in a myriad ways.
 
When using the StatB into my Clarus I powered it using the little battery box that came with a Basik contact mic. No idea what the impedance is on that little doohicky, but it does provide correct power in the very least. Looks like the StatB preamp has a gain knob and uses a 9v vs an AAA. I imagine the StatB preamp is dialed for the StatB and the little Basik box is not.
 
Double Midi knows this stuff backwards and forwards. Electrostatic devices, carry a charge, so it’s very likely that it’s impedance is very different from a piezo.
I rather learned from Francis Deck's publications (schematics and discussion forum) with some more basic understanding of electronics.

But back to the topic...

25 KOhms is more typical for a preamp output impedance than anything electrostatic (like a condenser capsule).

Condenser capsules (without built-in FET as an impedance buffer that many cheap electret capsules have) have a much higher impedance (less electrons to flow) than a typical piezo crystal pickup. Therefor the output impedance is much higher. In schematics I have seen resistors around one GigOhms. Electret condensers are still condensers, but they don't need the high phantom voltage for plate polarization because there was made a permanent (at least for some years) charge to one plate. The output impedance from a electret or normal condenser capsule should be in a similarly high range (GigOhm). Because of the high risk of electric noise, the impedance buffering FET (or valve if it's a valve condenser mic) needs to be as close as possible to the capsule. Therefor many cheap electret capsules (the ones with a PCB at their back) have the FET at its back (on the inside, you cannot see it).
But the basic schematic for an impedance buffer for a piezo and a condenser capsule is the same, only the input impedance differs a lot, the voltages of the condenser are a lot lower than from the piezo (as far as I know) and the balancing resistors around the FET (might need to be different even for two pieces of FETs with the same type number) and supply voltage might differ.
But values are always in a MegOhm to GigOhm range, never in KOhms range without impedance buffering (which is kind of a current amplification, not voltage amplification, so the acceptable resistive load is increased but not the amplitude like in a voltage amplification circuit).

So the 25 KOhms are the output impedance of either an condenser with an impedance buffer (most likely an electret that typically has a 2 KOhms output impedance) or the output impedance of the preamp that comes with the capsule. A supply voltage of 1.5 to 10 volts almost always is the supply for the FET of an electret condenser (unless there is a circuit inside that raises the input voltage to 48 volts phantom power).

So I'm rather sure my AKG C411 contact mic is an electret (but probably a better one) with a built-in FET (because the cable to the B23 preamp is much too long for a GigOhms impedance connection).
And I'm sure the Ischell is an electret too. Both are or could be driven with 9 volts and won't work without a supply voltage.
BTW the Shadow NFX piezo foil pickups have the FET directly near the foil under the black plastic, so the high impedance connection is very short. Very similar to the wiring of an electret capsule with a built-in FET. (Piezo foils may need an input impedance to up to 22 MegOhms.)

BTW, Francis and drurb (which seemed to have vanished from here, at least in the groups I read regularly) are the electronics experts. I just try to learn and understand and try to explain it if I feel the need to do so.
 
What's interesting is that I've been using the Gigpro with 10Mohm input as a sub for the Stat Pre and it works fine and sounds comparable, IMO.

Just shows you how little I know. Interesting that works that way. If it works and sounds the same, that’s a good thing. It’s possible that impedance loading doesn't effect electrostatic pickups. I assumed that the Stat B pre provided current to the pickup.

Ric
 
Just shows you how little I know. Interesting that works that way. If it works and sounds the same, that’s a good thing. It’s possible that impedance loading doesn't effect electrostatic pickups. I assumed that the Stat B pre provided current to the pickup.

Ric

Both Stat Pre and Gigpro supply 9v phantom. I'm guessing the Headway EDM with phantom will also work fine with the Stat B pickup. Maybe impedance loading doesn't affect phantom powered devices?
 
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Pure electrostatic pickups are a lot more sensitive to impedance loading than piezoelectric pickups, but because they are so sensitive they get an impedance buffer really close (that needs the supply voltage). So in electrostatic pickups there is the impedance lowering buffer built-in, so you never have to deal with the capsule alone but always with a impedance buffering output.

If piezo pickups were that sensitive to impedance as electrostatic sensors, all of them would have an impedance buffer built-in. The only piezo pickup I know that has it is the Shadow NFX, but any passive piezo can be connected to an impedance buffer. It is just a matter if the buffer impedance does pair well with the piezo connected to it. But unless modern surface mount technology is used, there is just a single resistor to be changed. In case of lowering the input impedance, a second resistor wired in parallel can lower the input impedance, just have a look at the formula for wiring two resistors in parallel. For 10 to 5 MegOhms it is easy, just connect a second 10 MegOhms resistor in parallel to get 5 MegOhms. That could be done by any service technician in a minute after he found the 10 MegOhms resistor. Even if the PCB and components are modern surface mounted ones.
 
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ideally you get the bigger thread and just have it installed. I asked Kiyohiko if he would offer the 1/4 inch thread so that people who really dont want to commit to it can buy it try it and if they dont like it sell it without having their bridged re threaded. I really like the pickup. After extensive testing of the two element version I can say one is plenty. Either side too. I like it on either the G side or the E side. Slightly different but a great pickup. Needs to have a 10Mohm imp. IF you dont have a 10Mohm imp input, you are not hearing the pickup but some bass attenuated version that does not sound good. 5 might be ok I don't know I haven't tried it my preamp has 1,10, 20. 20 is good too but gooey-er.
 
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How do I know which size adjuster I have? Seems like a difficult thing to figure out while the bridge is still on the bass no?
The 1/4 inch is the most common in this country, but you should ideally ask your luthier before buying anything. I got the larger size for my main bass (which already had odd size adjusters) but it cost a lot to have my bridge rethreaded. I bought the 1/4 inch for my Chadwick and it fit right in.