Double Bass Yamahiko Double Bass Pickup

[flatback]

Yeah No. Kiyohiko said he was going to get to it in Jan but I never heard from him. I'll email. I'd be really curious with this new tube preamp Im using because I use the pickups bridged now and It might be really great to try them with reversed polarity.
Just sent him an email...I would really like to hear that. I'd also like to be able to adjust the polarity of one against the other on a dial like Mike has....

 

[flatback]

Just got word from Kiyohiko (there is a translation delay of several days...) that he has made the reversed polarity pickup but has not tried it on his bass (busy guy). I encouraged him to send it to me to try it out. We will see if that works out. Here is the thing, I use the Yamahiko bridged into the Sarno V8 with the Vari Z. In my experiments with reversing phase on one of the two Yama's into the Grace Felix, it really thickens the sound (too thick)...but responds to thinning back out, that is cut some bass and you get a really woody sound. So I guess I want to try bridging them and then using the VariZ and the V8's crazy eq to tame the thick.
Truth is bridging the pickups does not sound like phasing to me but more like uncontrolled sharing; whatever the ratio of those signals being pushed together is is what comes out the other end (if you hook the cable to the G side bridged it sounds slightly different from hooking up the E side bridged). In the Felix you can control the ratio (if you run each pickup to a different channel) and it sounds best always (to me) 75/25% in either direction, that is with one pickup dominant. But the V8 tube preamp gets at that kind of 3D sound in a much less complicated and organic way...So I am curious how a two pickup Yama with one phase reversed is going to sound thru the V8. Stellar I'll bet, but maybe too much...

 

[Mike Arnopol]

This is the main reason that the Doubler has a variable phase control. There will always be phase cancellation---it's just a matter of where it sounds best. I've found that the likelihood of the best sound being in phase or 180 degrees out of phase (phase reverse switch) is pretty slim. It usually lies somewhere in between 0 degrees and 180 degrees. There is no "right" place--it's just a matter of where it sounds best---for your taste.

 

[flatback]

Thanks Mike your input about the Yamahiko is always welcome and of great interest. I wish there was some device other then the Doubler or the Radial Phase that could help dial in that ideal phase, but in my experiments with the Yama both bridged and phase reversed (with each pickup going separately into it's own channel of the Felix and then one of them phase reversed) the phase reversed sound is maximally thick and the bridged pickups are sharing the signal in an uncontrolled way (when my stereo speakers are out of phase they cancel frequencies, you can hear drop outs...I dont hear that with the bridged Yama)
SO. What I am hoping (without having a variable phase) is that the two pickups bridged (and out of phase) may make a BETTER starting point (for eq-ing and HPF) then the bridged IN phase.
Since I am committed to the tube buffer for the piezo and what that does for the sound I have the choice of: bridging either in phase or out, either pickup by itself, or running the pickups separately to their own tube buffer and then blending and reversing the phase of one.
I have run them each thru their own tube buffer (one thru the Black Box and one thru the V8) and into the Felix and then blended (whoa thats a lot of cords) but it sounds fricken stellar and so variable....
all that to say I am hopeful that two pickups out of phase and bridged then into the tube buffer (with variable imp) will be pretty excellent.
Would love to know Mike what you think about the whole tube thing...since it seems like you have all the equipment but use the Doubler?

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Passive piezo elements sound best when they have individual buffers. Otherwise they act one against the other. Don’t forget that the same piezo that acts as a speaker in a greeting card (piezo disk on brass) acts as well as a voltage source (sensor) and vice versa.
And it’s not only theory, I tried it and build the two pickups for my 5-string Clevinger EUB and the buffer/mixer that way because it sounded ich worse when both piezos were connected passively. One element is mixed with inverted phase because it sounded better (but I have a jumper for that).

 

[flatback]

Yeah but I experiment with this and truth is two thru two buffers can sound great but mostly it is too much of a good thing which leaves you knob twiddling. What is great about having the two pickups bridged and sent to the V8 is that the eq is so effective that you can, for example, dial up the bass and treble and use the HPF variZ to cut bass up to a certain point and you get this really even punchy sound that is clearer and more direct then either pickup by itself and more controlled and managable then the two independently buffered...I know everyone says I should hate the bridged sound but I don't, especially in any room I play in with a drummer.

 

[flatback]

Ok so I have just had a nice email exchange with Kiyohiko. He wrote to me to say that he has had a jazz bassist in Japan try the phase reversed pickup (the idea is to have two pickups, one E side one G side with one of them phase reversed so that no comb phasing...canceling of frequencies happens) and is thinking of offering it as an option. To that end he is going to send me one for trial.
In my experiments using the two pickups going into the Felix and phase reversing one of them the sound is drastically different and way thicker then just bridging them in phase.
I have suspected for a long time that this might be a better starting point (the two pickups out of phase but bridged) for eq-ing.
Looking forward to trying it out.

 

[flatback]

Just got the R polarity Yamahiko installed it in about 5 minutes bridged the pickups and just what I expected only better PHAT.
I’ve said this before here but what makes this pickup the tops os that it is so versitile. You can get one pickup or two, use either side bridge two run them thru a stereo jack and eq separately and now best of all get one phase reversed which allows the simplest two pickup setup but gets a really dimensional woody wonderful. Phase reversing and bridging the pickups sounds great ....seems to further reduce the pickup artifacts while taking out the phasing (which had the effect of pushing the mids forward and cutting bass)
On my bass this sheite sounds dope.
I gotta use it for a few weeks but it seems just totally killing....
Just an added benefit with the BB or V8 there is so much more bass that it seems to open up what the imp dial can do as an HPF.. plus the attack is thicker which is really woody and nice

 

[Ric Vice]

Just got the R polarity Yamahiko installed it in about 5 minutes bridged the pickups and just what I expected only better PHAT.
I’ve said this before here but what makes this pickup the tops os that it is so versitile. You can get one pickup or two, use either side bridge two run them thru a stereo jack and eq separately and now best of all get one phase reversed which allows the simplest two pickup setup but gets a really dimensional woody wonderful. Phase reversing and bridging the pickups sounds great ....seems to further reduce the pickup artifacts while taking out the phasing (which had the effect of pushing the mids forward and cutting bass)
On my bass this sheite sounds dope.
I gotta use it for a few weeks but it seems just totally killing....

This solves the dual element problem, I wonder if it would work with the dual element Schertler Stat B? Underwood did one with dual elements in cased in each of the two wing pickups. A thick and thinner one, he made it for Glen Moore and David Freisen, sounded great.

He never made another one.

 

[Earl]

This solves the dual element problem, I wonder if it would work with the dual element Schertler Stat B? Underwood did one with dual elements in cased in each of the two wing pickups. A thick and thinner one, he made it for Glen Moore and David Freisen, sounded great.

He never made another one.

The dual element is not a problem on my bass, it's a solution, as my bass actually benefits from the bass reduction!

 

[flatback]

Yeah with my other setup with the MAS 46 I like the sound bridged. But with the brighter 18 this reversed is way better with my bass

 

[PaperbackRyder]

Perhaps best would be to have each of the two output connectors (of the second element) in 0 & 180 so that one can hookup either side for whatever sounds best for that day/room/amp?

 

[flatback]

You can make fun but uh ... yeah if you use one or the other it would be like having a phase switch and because it is modular ( with the little screw connectors) that would be really easy and practical.
But the sound of them bridged out of phase with the bass rolled back is just knockin me out. Woody yet articulate

 

[PaperbackRyder]

I'm not making fun at all. Just seems to me that either solution might work best from one day to the next with the same bass, different room or amp or strings. Might be the most flexible offering for Yamahiko to make.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Perhaps best would be to have each of the two output connectors (of the second element) in 0 & 180 so that one can hookup either side for whatever sounds best for that day/room/amp?

I’m afraid this would only be possible with a balanced connection that needs a switch which end gets connected to ground. That means a different connector and a different adjuster. I doubt that would happen. If hot and ground are swapped at least the adjuster might get connected to hot.

Or the switch (and one is needed for this case) is in the adjuster and swaps positive and negative output before one of them gets connected to the adjuster enclosure ground.

 

[DaveAceofBass]

Just got the R polarity Yamahiko installed it in about 5 minutes bridged the pickups and just what I expected only better PHAT.
I’ve said this before here but what makes this pickup the tops os that it is so versitile. You can get one pickup or two, use either side bridge two run them thru a stereo jack and eq separately and now best of all get one phase reversed which allows the simplest two pickup setup but gets a really dimensional woody wonderful. Phase reversing and bridging the pickups sounds great ....seems to further reduce the pickup artifacts while taking out the phasing (which had the effect of pushing the mids forward and cutting bass)
On my bass this sheite sounds dope.
I gotta use it for a few weeks but it seems just totally killing....
Just an added benefit with the BB or V8 there is so much more bass that it seems to open up what the imp dial can do as an HPF.. plus the attack is thicker which is really woody and nice

I’m really interested in this setup. It would be amazing if you could make a video and compare:
1). Single Sensor
2). Bridged in Phase (the original)
3). Bridged out of Phase (the new one you just got)

If you could post this video (or audio only) we would ALL greatly appreciate it!

 

[flatback]

You dont even need to do that just use one or the other since one is in phase amd the other isnt
The effect bridged this way that sounds so cool to me is that you can hear each pickup separately inthe mix of the two

 

[Keithunem]

I'm not making fun at all. Just seems to me that either solution might work best from one day to the next with the same bass, different room or amp or strings. Might be the most flexible offering for Yamahiko to make.

I gotta throw this in. Just finished a Bluegrass cruise to the Bahamas and am using my bass with just one Yamahiko and playing through a Sarno, amp, Crazy 88, and many really great bluegrass players said it was the best bass sound they’ve ever heard (equipment, not me). Might have to try this at some point...thanks Piro for once again trying new ideas and giving your most relevant, unbiased opinions!

 

[flatback]

I'm going to have to write to Kiyohiko and let him know I think this combination of one in phase and one out should be offered as an option. It works really really well with my amp. The combination of the thick pickup sound thinned out by using the VariZ imp dial to cut bass sounds so good, the thump is there the articulation the warmth and now the mids in just the right spot. Super simple, one cord from the bass into the preamp, killing sound.
Kiyohiko has the best pickup on the market. He has covered all the basses.

 

[DaveAceofBass]

I'm going to have to write to Kiyohiko and let him know I think this combination of one in phase and one out should be offered as an option. It works really really well with my amp. The combination of the thick pickup sound thinned out by using the VariZ imp dial to cut bass sounds so good, the thump is there the articulation the warmth and now the mids in just the right spot. Super simple, one cord from the bass into the preamp, killing sound.
Kiyohiko has the best pickup on the market. He has covered all the basses.

We need audio / video!