Double Bass Yamahiko Double Bass Pickup

[Ric Vice]

We need audio / video!

Dave,
Since I don’t own a Yamahiko I can’t help you out. It takes time to make a recording sound or video, so perhaps you should DM some one with the pickup. IME, recording a pickup or microphone is usually a PITA and I have decent equipment!
Once you post it, many players just ignore it, or ask you for something different that would have you doing additional recording, which takes more time. Just my take. If I owned one I’d try it for you, unfortunately I don’t.

 

[flatback]

Yeah I'm not going to get into a bunch of video and or audio recording. I just dont have the time. I seem to be able to blab about it but, with two kids and way too many other projects, I'm just not motivated in that direction unless it can show something really helpful. Here I think alot of people know what comb phasing sounds like (makes the sound thinner) having the pickup separate each one has it's own characteristics...similar but different. Together out of phase from one another, the sound is very thick but when you cut some bass it becomes very dimensional and kickin.

 

[DaveAceofBass]

You guys must think I mean something professional or edited...a simple unedited smartphone video using the phone mic would suffice! It won’t sound as accurate as a real mix through interfaces and fancy software but it would give us a general idea.

 

[Ric Vice]

Dave,
Problem is, a iPhone video, probably won't tell you much about the differences in sound, between reversed phase and normal (?), because you'll loose a tremendous amount of low end and detail, unless you connect it to a decent microphone with lightning to USB 3.0 capability.

It's quite possible that you wouldn't hear much difference at all, because of lack of frequency response through the phones internal microphone.. Plus, listening an isolated one take video or audio, of the Yamahiko soloed, you won't have any idea of how those phase differences sound

when you're playing on a gig, because they are relatively subtile. That said, if I had one I'd try it for you, but I don't. If you wan't to hear the Ehrlund EAP, a Revolution Solo, the MSP, or a Planet Wing. I have those. All I can do is hit the phase on the Grace Designs Felix and do

a reverse and switch it back. Just my opinion of course. I still feel that the old Euphonic Audio Doubler with it's variable phase did this the best.

 

[flatback]

This reversed polarity pickup combo is just rockin man. With the HPF cutting out the intense bass what is left is this very acoustic bass sound that coupled with the Tube preamp is just utterly stellar. If you really cut bass and crank the treble (a totally viable thing with the V8) the resulting mid forward sound is still lower mid forward and round and fat. There is virtually no emphasis on the ugly piezo frequencies and no phase cancellation or the weird thing that happens with phase-ing where some frequencies seem stacked while others cancelled. I have not tried switching which pickup is E side or G side yet, been too busy, but I have tried switching which pickup has the lead to the jack and that does seem to make some subtle difference.
Very woody, very acoustic sounding, much less electric artifacts, and interfaces with the V8 tube preamp and MAS18 in a way that maximizes the audio of those two. Total keeper.

 

[DaveAceofBass]

Dave,
Problem is, a iPhone video, probably won't tell you much about the differences in sound, between reversed phase and normal (?), because you'll loose a tremendous amount of low end and detail, unless you connect it to a decent microphone with lightning to USB 3.0 capability.

It's quite possible that you wouldn't hear much difference at all, because of lack of frequency response through the phones internal microphone.. Plus, listening an isolated one take video or audio, of the Yamahiko soloed, you won't have any idea of how those phase differences sound

when you're playing on a gig, because they are relatively subtile. That said, if I had one I'd try it for you, but I don't. If you wan't to hear the Ehrlund EAP, a Revolution Solo, the MSP, or a Planet Wing. I have those. All I can do is hit the phase on the Grace Designs Felix and do

a reverse and switch it back. Just my opinion of course. I still feel that the old Euphonic Audio Doubler with it's variable phase did this the best.

Thanks for the offer. I have a pretty good idea of what it’s going to sound like. The single Yamahiko should be similar to the Full Circle, although it should be louder and better. The double in-phase version would be like the Underwood, in some respects. The Underwood has some comb-filtering when you use both sides, resulting in a more midrangey sound like I hear from Eddie Gomez and a lot of the samples of the Yamahiko. On my Acoustic Image Clarus I will sometimes blend a Lifeline and an Underwood. (The Lifeline is darker and not as loud.) When you hit the phase-reverse switch on one channel with these two pickups, the tone is louder and fatter. I suspect the Yamahiko will be the similar if you order the two sides out of phase like @flatback is raving about, closer to the single Yamahiko but with better definition on the G string side since you have a pickup there. I think that’s what I want to get. Time will tell if I can afford to do it!

 

[flatback]

Yup you got it. Thats exactly it.
What Im raving about is having that in the pickup so I can plug it into a simple single channel tube preamp that does not have a phase switch but does HPF. The result is a really simple setup 2yama bridged thru one cord to the preamp and powered speaker wheile getting a sound better then when I used two channels and all the sophisticated eq. Plug and play but super HIFi and acoustic sounding.

 

[DaveAceofBass]

Yup you got it. Thats exactly it.
What Im raving about is having that in the pickup so I can plug it into a simple single channel tube preamp that does not have a phase switch but does HPF. The result is a really simple setup 2yama bridged thru one cord to the preamp and powered speaker wheile getting a sound better then when I used two channels and all the sophisticated eq. Plug and play but super HIFi and acoustic sounding.

What preamp did you say you were using?

 

[flatback]

Sarno V8

 

[Ric Vice]

While I think there are similarities between the Full Circle and
the Yamahiko the designs are very different, since the Yamahiko places the piezo element in the shaft, while the Full Circle adjuster is hollowed out
to put the piezo crystals inside the wheel. The Fishman was designed after the Yamahiko. Take that for what it’s worth.

 

[Povl Carstensen]

This reminds of the days when I got a Underwood separated and experimented with plugging it it separate channels. Got the phasing issue, even if one was turned up more than the other. I also thought I could reverse phase by turning an element upside down, but got wiser. I wish I had tried turning phase by rewiring, but never got around to that.

 

[Ric Vice]

Both of my MI Series Walter Woods amps had a Phase switch. It seemed to help with the Underwood even though I’m not certain it was designed for that issue specifically.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

I wish I had tried turning phase by rewiring, but never got around to that.

Then you would inner the brass shelf to hot, not that good.
The connections to the crystal need to be swapped with I hour swapping the ground to brass shield, but that’s not easy and might break the pickup element.

 

[Povl Carstensen]

Yes, and my WW does not have phase switches, so it won't happen. But the WW's parametric mid does such a good job of taming my new Barcus Berry clamps scratchiness, that it is sticking on.

 

[Ric Vice]

Yes, and my WW does not have phase switches, so it won't happen. But the WW's parametric mid does such a good job of taming my new Barcus Berry clamps scratchiness, that it is sticking on.

I heard Ray Drummond use one years ago and it sounded quite good in a trio with Kenny Baron and Duos with Bill Mays.

 

[flatback]

I’ve done a few gigs with the reversed Yama pair and I really dig what it does.... I talked with @Mike Arnopol about his use of the EA Doubler to fine tune the phase between the pickups... according to him ( and I believe him based on my having them both in phase and out of phase) the ideal relationship should be adjustable and somewhere in between but until there is a better way of doing that this configuration ( one in phase one out) offers really great possibilities. Last night I had the two pickups bridged going into the V8.... the one in one out really puts out a lot of bass but if you roll that back with HPF and or the bass knob what is left is an incredible acoustic mic like sound ( for a pickup) with almost no piezo artifacts. Dial up the bass and the thickness is fat yet articulate, dial it back and the mids and treble balance the bass in a really great way. The sound I was getting was maybe the bast pickup sound I have ever heard. It sounded at least as good as my best mic blended sound with the Felix but with no feedback or artifacts. I am curious if the same incredible sound would happen with a big dark bass, I think it would. It shifts all the points that you adjust on the preamp but toward more useful central points

 

[DoubleMIDI]

You can use a fine tunable delay line as a phase shifter on one input.
Beyond a flipped phase any phase shifting is frequency dependent and all-pass filters (same volume on all frequencies, but phase gets shifted differently for them) could do frequency dependent phase shifting. But this is more stuff for an engineer.
The delay line will shift all frequencies by the same time but differently in phase for different frequencies (naturally because all frequencies have different wavelengths).

So a delay line might not be the same as the phase shift, but falls into the same category and is worth a try.
I think it might be helpful if the granularity if the time delay is below 1 millisecond. I would rather try one with samples than milliseconds as the time delay unit. (If they exist and are not too expensive).
But if you already have one, even with milliseconds granularity it might be worth a try.

 

[flatback]

cool tanks. I have no idea what you are talking about. Sorry, are you saying get a delay on one line? Which one do you mean?...and I am not sure how it would work?
...Im all about simplifying lately and what I really dig is that while it may not be the most ideal (having one in phase and one totally out) the way it works with a preamp is really cool. Bridged, the In/out pickups have a really bass heavy vibe. But just the one thing of rolling off the bass (on my bass) gets me a fantastic sound well eq'd warm sound.Very mic like with the most minimized piezo artifacts I have heard yet with the advantages of two pickups...namely really even three dimensional sound.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Yes, a very short time adjustable delay on one of the lines. Just try on one or the other. I’m not sure if you will find a difference, but I doubt it.

Phase shift IS a time delay. The time delay may differ for different frequencies (that is where the all-pass filter comes into play) but basically you cannot shift phase without time delay.

Just keep in mind that 1 ms is 33 cm in air and even a longer distance in solids. So a really short time delay might be needed. But still worth a try with a few milliseconds (not more than ten).

 

[DaveAceofBass]

How does the bridges reversed phase version compare with the single sensor variety?