You know the old saying at Berklee, if you graduated you probably are not a very good player. B/c the good musicians get picked up by major artists and head out on tour. Actually I think it's an urban legend type thing. If you have 2 bassists auditioning for a gig both with the same level of talent but one sight reads, who gets the gig? There is no argument NOT to get a degree. If you are serious about music learn the language, don't be illiterate.
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Yes! Electric Bass Degree
- Thread starter PNeher
- Start date
The point was, you can point to any degree and call it worthless. Including my old roommate's law degree which prepared him well to open up a bar after he realized it was much harder to get work as a lawyer than he he had imagined
Of course you can.
But did I?
I have now edited the post you referred to making my point a lot clearer I think.
That's a different issue. If you want to be a professional player, some formal training (typically finding a good teacher and working your a** off) is a must. Paying thousands for a degree, and learning the history of Western music, etc...... again, surely not worthless in an absolute sense, but regarding making a living, well, pretty worthless.
I burned as many electives as I could during my undergraduate years, taking theory classes, etc. in the music department. I also studied privately for a while with a faculty member at another university while I finished up my Masters (not in music).
As a UA grad (B.S. '89) I applaud the opportunity. If you're already on the music performance track, it's terrific to have a new door to go through.
Just wondering, is this a relatively new thing over on your side of the world? Bass guitar as a performance major?
Education is never worthless. If you goto college or seek any education for the simple reason to make money, then you're going for the wrong reasons.
Formal music education gives you tools to know/understand what you need to know, and how to get there. I played for 20years, relatively successfully, before heading to Berklee where I DID graduate with a BS in Perf on EB. There is sooooo much good to be said about the experience and what I took away from it. I am far better off for it and would do it again. History of Western music doesnt make you "gig" better but it does add value on your perspective of various performance opportunities you may run into. Ear training, harmonic analysis, counterpoint, 4 part writing, all invaluable music school expriences in getting you to think about the mechanics of music, and despite some posters on this site's very erudite and articulate attempts to discredit those experiences in relation to playing the bass it DOES make you a better player, and more importantly, musician, indirectly. The older I get and the more I play the more Ive come to understand that its all about being a whole/complete musician, not about your wicked slap chops or how fast you can play Donna Lee, though those things are cool albeit mostly to other bass players! Also, while at a school like Berklee you do get 2 private lessons per week and you have WAY more time to practice than if you are not going to Berklee, so in terms of direct impact on your playing, it is almost no contest.
The old "those who graduated are not really good..." is definitely an urban legend. Since I have seen mediocre players get picked up by major artists prior to graduation, and astounding players go the full 4 years. Just off the top of my head I could name a few that were at Berklee with me. Those who get picked up are either lucky or they work really hard at seeking it out. There are many avenues a player can take. Carving out a living as a hired gun to back up major artists is somewhat different from making a living as jazz musician, or a session ace, or heading up your own band, or being a big fish in a small pond if you choose to, or cant, be on the road.
The old "those who graduated are not really good..." is definitely an urban legend. Since I have seen mediocre players get picked up by major artists prior to graduation, and astounding players go the full 4 years. Just off the top of my head I could name a few that were at Berklee with me. Those who get picked up are either lucky or they work really hard at seeking it out. There are many avenues a player can take. Carving out a living as a hired gun to back up major artists is somewhat different from making a living as jazz musician, or a session ace, or heading up your own band, or being a big fish in a small pond if you choose to, or cant, be on the road.
Well a couple things to remember about a university degree, especially the undergraduate. The major really isn't that important. The important things are:
- actually finishing the degree
- your grades.
Really all a college degree is is a formal receipt for having gone through a general university course of study. And that's really it's value when it comes to employment or graduate studies - it formally demonstrates that you have the interest and ability to go through hell for an extended period of time and are willing to learn, etc.
I don't think I've ever been asked by an employer what my major was for my BA, tho I was asked what I studied in graduate school (even tho I never completed my masters). In fact, I have no formal training whatsoever in what I now do for a living - software slavery - my BA and graduate work was all in liberal arts.
Employers do look at your GPA and the history of the pursuit of your degree (i.e. long gaps in studies, whether you worked your way through, etc), but rarely the actual major/minor.
So I say go for it; if it's an accredited school and offers an actual BA/BS and you can do it playing bass, I don't see anything wrong with it.
For graduate work you might have to consider what the electric bass means, but for undergrad, shouldn't make much difference...
LS
Thanks for chiming in with your experience, it's especially refreshing to hear from somebody who already put a lot of years in prior to pursuing a degree in music studies.
I'm going to school for trumpet performance, and my bass playing has benefited immensely. So no, no one will hire you based on your degree, but I'm betting you'll come out of the program one hell of a bass player.
To the people who think this is at all a bad idea for getting an education degree with; You don't just learn any one instrument when you get an education degree, you learn ALL OF THEM anyways. So, there is absolutely no way this is a negative. You'll get all the same experiences of someone's major being upright except its on your preferred instrument.
+1
The truth is, if you have the self-discipline and the ability to look up info on the internet, than you can learn anything you want on your own.
Uriah Duffy and Victor Wooten didn't get music degrees and they are some of the best musicians around.
i think a program like this can be quite useful for a college-minded bass player to kill several birds with one stone. you get the 4 year degree, you get bass lessons, theory, etc. perhaps most importantly you get a head start on networking that you may not otherwise have access to. your classmates/teachers in the music program may be the same people who hire you for gigs after graduation.
the reality is a small majority of bass players are able to make a living by playing alone. a 4 year bass program may help you get there, or it may help you score a "real" job while you're developing your music career. as much as you can set out to be a pro bass player, you never know what other opportunities may come along. it may not be a necessary qualification for many gigs but it certainly won't hurt your skill as a musician.
i think it's a great idea, and hope that more uni's follow suit.
the reality is a small majority of bass players are able to make a living by playing alone. a 4 year bass program may help you get there, or it may help you score a "real" job while you're developing your music career. as much as you can set out to be a pro bass player, you never know what other opportunities may come along. it may not be a necessary qualification for many gigs but it certainly won't hurt your skill as a musician.
i think it's a great idea, and hope that more uni's follow suit.
Man, if they only offered that along with a degree in Philosophy you'd be SET!
Education is a good thing, but +1 for a plan B.
You got it!
BTW, thanks for the spell-checker!
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That was over 30 years ago since that was said. The music Industry has changed so much since then that no one... on one... is picking kids up out of Berklee like they did in the 70's and 80's.
on a separate note I believe Manhattan School of Music, NEC, Berklee, Frost School at University of Miami, University of the Arts in Philly, McNally Smith and NYU all do electric bass.
So the English major with the 3.8 GPA works harder than the electrical engineer with the 2.9?
It kind of depends on what job you're going for. Some jobs require (or at the very least, recommend a degree specific to that field)
Regardless, it's pretty much always better to have a degree than not. It opens doors that wouldn't be opened otherwise.
In my case, I want to be a game designer. There aren't really any schools that offer a major in game design (ok, well now there are a few but it's still pretty hard to find one). So, what most people who are actually in the game industry say is to just get a degree in something that interests you, and along the way try to learn as much about how the world works as possible. They suggest simply having an understanding of how things work.
So, that's what I'm doing. I would hazard a guess that that would work well in a number of creative professions.
