You Can Build It

[Jisch]

If it's like the stuff I use, the accelerant doesn't make it cloudy, but it does make it pucker. If you want to make a thin smooth coat (like on a fretless fingerboard) it's best to use accelerant sparingly, though I have used it on just about all of my CA coated boards through pure impatience. That five minutes for the CA glue to dry is just too long :-D

 

[Gilmourisgod]

I’d like to try the CA over the crushed MOP, if I can get a water clear, totally transparent fill, I’d be golden. It’s weird, if you just pour the Envirotex, it’s like any other tabletop resin, minus the amber color, but once sanded for radius, doesn’t seem to ever come back to full transparency.

 

[wraub]

I appreciate your diligence, your curiosity, and your enthusiasm for experimentation. Thanks.
Also, your instruments look like they'd be fun to play.
Imo, etc.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Is that all just straight CA over the various materials? Looks nice and clear.

 

[NKBassman]

Experiments

View attachment 3325725

Above are 21 tests of potential inlay materials. All of them are dirt-cheap glitter available pretty much anywhere. All the glitters are plastic except silver & gold, which are glass. Except as noted, all fills are clear Loctite CA.

The board has been rough-sanded flat and finished with two coats of UV-poly, no polishing. The poly did a pretty good job of filling the scratches, but not perfect. If this was a real fretboard, I would sand the scratches out before finishing. I was curious what the worst case would be.

Starting at the upper left (1-1) going to the lower right (7-3):

1-1 copper/black - glittort
1-2 red - strawberry jewel
1-3 copper/black/silver - glittort

2-1 copper - nice
2-2 copper/red/black/silver - glittort
2-3 black - best way to make black

3-1 fine gunmetal - nice
3-2 gold (glass) - MOP
3-3 silver (glass) - MOP

4-1 pure black CA - not great
4-2 red/black - glittort
4-3 spackle - not useful

5-1 red over black CA - nice
5-2 jumbo diamond over black CA - not useful
5-3 red/silver - glittort

6-1 spackle 2 - not useful
6-2 crystal over white paint - pearl
6-3 jumbo diamond/black - jade

7-1 jumbo diamond over white paint - best MOP
7-2 jumbo diamond - not useful
7-3 crystal - not useful

The CA did not penetrate the spackle as hoped. Therefore this has no strength. The black CA has a very long drying time, and also issues with "heave", where it throws up a wall around itself.

Jumbo diamond has filling issues, but mixing it with regular diamond would help with the edges and corners. Most of these are also available in fine versions, similar to the gunmetal.

There are many more colors of glitter available, and I have not even tried sand. Hobby Lobby has many colors of sand, and then there's Home Depot, and even regular old beach sand. I have kept my choices fairly conservative here.

On another piece I have a number of water-based poly inlays that are still wet. Right now they all look good, but I fully expect something to go wrong before the poly cures. It shrinks like mad as it dries, like 90% loss of volume.

View attachment 3325358

I really like all the "jumbo diamond" ones.

 

[BTL]

@alder Nice work!

Not to belabor the point, but if you are committed to using CA as a medium, I suspect the GluBoost product line would make your process quite a bit faster and more consistent.

I have no affiliation, it just looks like exactly the right tool for the job.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

@BeeTL
Have you tried the flu boost as a clear filler or topcoat? It’s got to be really water clear for the glitter style inlays.

 

[NKBassman]

These are the two biggest inlays. The centers seemed to be taking forever to harden. In fact, once they skin over solid, they may never harden. So I carved them out and let them dry for a day. That did the trick, now I can fill them back in properly, in thin layers.

This is clearly the result of filling too fast. Fortunately, the CA seems to burn into itself, even when dry. The liquid seems to melt the solid. So there should be no evidence of anything when it is done. I found some more small voids after the picture, and picked them out and filled them.

I did not see this problem using clear CA over glitter. This black CA seems more prone not to dry, but this is mainly the result of poor technique - I rushed it. Also, with no filler in a relatively deep well, patience is required in filling it to the top. If I had routed shallower, I'd probably be done by now. Learning all the time.

Questions for the sake of conversation:

1. Is the black CA fully opaque, or do you need to build up a certain depth to get the blackness to appear opaque and hide the wood grain?
2. Do you need a minimum depth in order to build up your glitter inlays to get a good looking result?
3. What do you think are the shallowest inlay routes you could get away with? From either the loothering/wordworking practicalities side and/or to get a proper looking inlay.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

I found that the depth of the glitter itself limits how shallow the inlay can be, i used fairly large flakes, so I needed about 1/8" deep inlay cavity PRIOR to radiusing the fingerboard. If you sand through to the glitter, it will show as flaws in the surface.

 

[BTL]

Invalid Link Removed

Thanks for that. Looks interesting, but expensive. Last night on my way to the gym, I picked up an ounce of clear CA for three bucks at Hobby Lobby. I just need to learn how to use it. And patience. The black stuff cures very slowly, but it stinks, so it's definitely doing something.

The non-blushing accelerator is all you need, and it's $12.00 for 4 oz.

So, it's the same price as the CA you use, and you just mist it on to set each new layer.

No bubbling, no pitting, no hazing, or yellowing ever! Consistently clear and fast cure every time with far less dust and sanding! Experience the GluBoost best-in- class difference in your workplace today!

• No bubbling or pitting, clouding, hazing or yellowing!
• Works fast and saves you time and effort
• Less filing needed and less dust in your workplace!
• Glues dry instantly as clear and smooth as glass!
• Great for bonding two parts together
• Never stains your wood work

 

[NKBassman]

1. The black is totally opaque, the first coat is black.

2. When using the black, probably 1/16" at the shallowest point would be good. For glitter, double that, at least. You don't want the glitter at the surface, you want a solid coat of clear over it. Use just enough glitter to get the effect. You need to leave some extra thickness in the topmost coat for sanding.

3. See above. Fretboard radius complicates matters. I would radius the board first, so you know exactly what you are dealing with, and keep the radius pretty flat. Honestly, I don't know for sure, I'm still trying to make one come out good. When I figure it out, I'll let you know.

I would plan on over-coating the entire board with polyurethane or something, and polish that if you want. I have no intention of finding out what kind of a mess you create when polishing an inlay in bare porous wood. Inlaying with CA is a pretty standard practice, but it's not as easy as they make it look.

I saw a video of a guy who routed inlays much the same way, and then cut the corners sharp with a chisel, and it didn't look too hard. I'm perfectly happy with my rounded corners.

The thin layer of black I put in the pits looks as wet as when I put it on this morning. I think this stuff has drying issues. I would make black with black glitter and clear CA, it looks cooler anyway.

That's cool, I only brought it up for sake of discussion.
I think the rounded corners look great, too. I wouldn't bother squaring them with a chisel.

 

[delta7fred]

I have not worked out a string ground yet, there probably won't be any. Depending on how I anchor the strings, there may not be anything metallic touching them.

If you are using a piezo pickup they will not need grounding.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

View attachment 3331064

Most of the major carving on the upright body is done:

• electronics cavity
• wire channel
• output jack socket
• end peg socket & channel
• neck pocket
• body edges
• battery cavity

I'm keeping the body as solid and heavy as possible, to counterweight the neck. I find whining about "neck dive" to be supremely annoying, but when you turn this thing horizontal, it has balance issues. It stands about 5'8" with the end peg fully extended.

The battery box is located to give me access to the bend in the wiring channel, in case that is needed. I don't foresee any problems fishing the wires through, I made the channel generously wide and smooth.

I have not worked out a string ground yet, there probably won't be any. Depending on how I anchor the strings, there may not be anything metallic touching them.

A small brass plate at the ballend anchor point could act as the ground link to strings.

 

[rwkeating]

It never hurts.

It can. When you ground the string you become part of the electrical circuit when you touch the strings. Ever get a shock between say a microphone and your grounded strings when you touch both at the same time? That can't happen when the strings aren't grounded. If you don't need to ground the strings, I wouldn't do it.

I realize there are many times you need to ground strings to reduce noise. Most instruments have their strings grounded and that is certainly an acceptable practice. With a piezo, string grounding usually isn't needed.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Dang! I’ve had DS tape slip on me too, I don’t really trust it anymore without some backup clamps. At least it’s a bolt on!

 

[wagdog]

I like hand tools for two reasons: 1) when I screw up it’s usually fixable, 2) I can listen to music while I use them. Did I mention I’m retired and have all the time in the world?

 

[rwkeating]

What kind of hand tool would you use to make a channel for binding (around a neck or body?)

 

[Gilmourisgod]

You'd use a purfling cutter and chisels, thats how binding was cut before routers. Have i ever done it by hand? Nope! The Stewmac binding cutters are superb, but.... Sh*t happens.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Science is mostly repeated failure, I haven’t seen anybody else attempt this as thoroughly, you are now the Enrico Fermi of glitter inlays.

 

[Jisch]

I use the TP10 stuff and can confirm the thicker the CA is the longer it takes to dry and the less hard it is when fully cured. I don't see a ton of difference in hardness between the thin and medium, but the thick and gel both cure a lot softer.