Double Bass You have to mix a set

[SVT4001]

How about this grouping?

Perm E/C; Spiro A (mitt); Jazzer D; Oliv G.

 

[Sam Dingle]

Perhaps but would the Perm C be good for jazz?

 

[Jake deVilliers]

Close, but no cigar! My wife is currently playing: Spiro Mittel 'E', Spiro Weich 'A', Jazzer 'D' and Lycon 'G'.
I don't really like the Jazzer under my fingers but she gets a very consistent sound right across the board. And her intonation is perfect...

 

[Sam Dingle]

That's an interesting mix! And what are you playing on?

 

[Jake deVilliers]

That's an interesting mix! And what are you playing on?

I hardly ever get to play the bass. I play guitar in the band and Maiken plays bass.

I played a gig with a friend's band last Sunday, filling in for their absent bass player, and it was a blast! No responsibility except for the groove and singing the high parts - just cruising, really.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

My wife is currently playing: Spiro Mittel 'E', Spiro Weich 'A', Jazzer 'D' and Lycon 'G'.

Jake, which kinds of Spiros, 3/4 or 4/4?

This information is often missing and is rather important, since the 4/4 Mittel Spiro is much closer to the 3/4 Weich than the 3/4 Mittel in tension.

I would like to have a big hint in the string stickies, that for Thomatik Spirocore and Superflexible it is very important not only to mention the Weich/Mittel/Stark but also the intended scale (3/4, 4/4 or another shorter scale) of the string.
This is really important for mixed sets otherwise help might not be helpful if choosing the wrong scale string.
What do you think about that?

BTW, is it true that in the USA the Thomastik 4/4 sets are more common even for the shorter scales than the 3/4 sets?
That might explain irritation for European players where usually the 3/4 sets are used for up to 105 cm scales.

 

[Sam Dingle]

That's correct. Most people in America just use the 4/4 strings. As far as I can tell

 

[Sam Dingle]

That's correct. Most people in America just use the 4/4 strings. As far as I can tell

 

[MikeCanada]

In Canada, it depends on the shop. In a violin family shop (we don't really have any large bass-only shops that I am aware of) the assumption when buying anything by Thomastik-Infeld is typically 3/4, unless otherwise specified. In "music stores" that also happen to have double bass strings, it's hit and miss. Some of them exclusively carry 4/4 strings because they assume that's the standard "full size" double bass, some of them carry 3/4 because that is what their suppliers send them, and some don't even know there are different options.

Personally, I specify exactly what I am looking for (size and tension) because I typically have to make a special order anyway as strings for 5ths are not typically in stock. I have also been told on multiple occasions that the Red Mitchell "set" cannot be broken and I have to purchase the whole thing instead of individual strings from it.

 

[bassmastan]

Jake, which kinds of Spiros, 3/4 or 4/4?

This information is often missing and is rather important, since the 4/4 Mittel Spiro is much closer to the 3/4 Weich than the 3/4 Mittel in tension.

I would like to have a big hint in the string stickies, that for Thomatik Spirocore and Superflexible it is very important not only to mention the Weich/Mittel/Stark but also the intended scale (3/4, 4/4 or another shorter scale) of the string.
This is really important for mixed sets otherwise help might not be helpful if choosing the wrong scale string.
What do you think about that?

BTW, is it true that in the USA the Thomastik 4/4 sets are more common even for the shorter scales than the 3/4 sets?
That might explain irritation for European players where usually the 3/4 sets are used for up to 105 cm scales.

It would most likely make a difference for the mixed sets, someone on here with a dalmatian in their profile pic (@iiipopes) has all the tensions of the spiro strings, and while 1-4 pounds might not seem like a lot, subtract that from 3 strings and it could be a 12 lb difference... I think knowing the tensions of the strings is paramount before mixing sets

 

[Jake deVilliers]

Jake, which kinds of Spiros, 3/4 or 4/4?

This information is often missing and is rather important, since the 4/4 Mittel Spiro is much closer to the 3/4 Weich than the 3/4 Mittel in tension.

I would like to have a big hint in the string stickies, that for Thomatik Spirocore and Superflexible it is very important not only to mention the Weich/Mittel

BTW, is it true that in the USA the Thomastik 4/4 sets are more common even for the shorter scales than the 3/4 sets?
That might explain irritation for European players where usually the 3/4 sets are used for up to 105 cm scales.

The Weich 'A' is from the 3885.0W set and I believe the 'E' is from an S42 set. I considered including this info but I didn't want to confuse the message. I also didn't mention that the 'E' and 'A' peg assignments have been swapped. This changes the tensions on the relevant strings as well.

Most music stores in Canada only stock the 4/4 Spiro Mittel sets. Until I went to work at Long & McQuade in Vancouver they didn't even know there were different sets for different string lengths or the kind of difference they make! I'm happy to say that the Band Manager and Band sales staff have been very enthusiastic about adding to their knowledge of DBs and strings.

Unfortunately, a set of 3885.0W Spiros is still a Special Order with L&M Head Office. Even though the store carries thousands of different guitar sets...

 

[Rocktometrist]

I currently have Spiro mittels on E/A (S42 set--4/4), and Obligatos on D/G. Stumbled on this mix by myself, but have since met a couple of other guys who use the same. Feel and sound very consistent string-to-string, and plays to the strengths/avoids the weaknesses of each set (no more floppy Obli E or plinky Spiro G!). Really happy with this set-up...for now at least.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Thanks to all of you for the feedback about the typically available Spiros.

I think in Europe the instruments with typical 3/4 string scales get 3/4 strings, using 4/4 sets is an exception I seldom have heard of. Over here the 4/4 strings are more exotic, since they are typically ordered for long scale instruments only.

For a used Clevinger EUB with a 105 cm scale that I bought used in Germany that has been used by an american bassist over here I found Spiro Mittel on it, assumed they have been 3/4 Mittel and ordered a 3/4 Weich set because of the stiff and hard feel. After installing them they didn't feel much different to the set before. Now I understand why ...
The problem with the 3/4 and 4/4 Spiro sets is that they only differ in length and mass per length unit, but are not differently marked by silk colour or ball imprint. And since they were cut to fit the Bass guitar pegs on the EUB, I couldn't find out which set it was.
Since a few months I'm able to measure string tensions more or less reliably, and I found out that the tension was pretty close to my old Spiro Mittel 4/4 set from my double bass with the 110 cm scale (but both measured to the same string scale, of course).

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I've always felt that every single set of strings I've ever had has been mismatched in terms of the E string being too weak. It's pretty much an automatic thing when stringing a bass to use G-D-A from one set and E from a heavier set.

 

[Sam Dingle]

I haven't experienced this with trying strings on my bass. I haven't felt the E string ever was out of place except for the Velvets (Evahs, spiros were fine). Do you find this on your bass or most you try?

 

[DoubleMIDI]

The Compas 180 have an ascending tension towards the lower strings, even if they call their strings equal tension. They have a strong E, compared to the higher strings, similar to the Spiros or Evahs.
The Innovation Braided E is not weaker than the A, but the Honey E is a bit weaker than the Honey A. The silver Slap E is fine for the set, like the Braided.

But most Corelli and some Piratro sets are indeed weak on the E. But that might be intended, since the Solo-sets are always a bit weak on the lower strings.

If Spiros and Evahs sound weak on a bass, either the setup could be enhanced (soundpost position) or the bass itself is weak on the low end.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

All basses. When students come in with a matched set, the E string always feels floppy to me. And they tend to really like the heavier E's on my basses when they play them.

 

[bassmastan]

All basses. When students come in with a matched set, the E string always feels floppy to me. And they tend to really like the heavier E's on my basses when they play them.

I think this is more common practice than 4 mismatched strings. I know many people who will use a heavier E string of the same type so they don't lose colour. Also one of the standards of orch low C strings are spiros and helicores.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

I once played a lot of CCBs and cheap European basses (all 5-string, 3/4 and 4/4) looking out for a second instrument for temporary use if my main one is not useable due to damage or maintenance. I was looking for a 3/4 5-string for easier transport, but tried 4/4 too for comparison.
All 3/4 instruments were weak on the E, some even on he A. Most 4/4 instruments were at least a bit weak on the E and only one 4/4 carved top was similar in low end response on the E to my 4/4 5-string Emanuael Wilfer orchestral bass. And I tried a low B Spiro too on some of the better ones, not only the factory strings.

But strings can indeed vary a lot in feel and sound on different instruments. My large Wilfer with the thick top might be not very typical ...

 

[Sam Dingle]

Interesting. When I throw my spiros back on I may have to look into a Stark E. That being said I don't hear or feel and mismatch