You think the audience doesn't notice? Think again!

[Richland123]

EDIT: Sorry if posted in the wrong forum. Had no idea where to post it.

Did a gig last night at an outdoor venue at The Villages in Fla (a big giant retirement community) that I play once a month, and we get a lot of regulars. I've been using my Hammersmith with a very dead set of Dunlop Super Bright Nickels there pretty much exclusively most of the year. Tonight I got a wild hair and brought out my modded 76 Precision with a newish set of the same strings instead. Both these basses have Geezer PJ's, and to me they sound about the same when the strings have comparable wear. Everything else was the same as usual...REDDI into the PA, same pedals I've been using all year set the same way and used in the same songs, same sound tech we usually have there and the same PA, which is a decent but not particularly great PA (a souped-up and somewhat customized Bose PA...one of the bigwigs of the Bose family lives at the Villages and has the ear of the family who owns the Villages).

I probably had 20 people who are regulars at our gigs come up to me on break and ask me how come the Fender sounded so much edgier and aggressive than the Hammersmith. Only one of them plays an instrument, and while most were guys, plenty of women said the same thing.

So if I ever hear any of you jokers try to claim that the audience doesn't know or care about your sound again, I will tell you that you're a very arrogant person who has zero respect for your audiences. Of course, I have been saying that for years, but now I've got proof. A big outdoor venue with about 3000 people there in various states of inebriation, and several non-musicians noticed that the strings on the Fender made it sound edgier.

The lesson I learned is I need to change my strings more often The lesson YOU should learn is that if you think your audience is so stupid that they can't tell the difference in your sound no matter what you use, maybe they're not the stupid ones.

Happy holidays, everyone!

Very well put Jimmy. I say constantly that consistency pays off. Consistency in the group sound, songs, arrangements, vocals, instrumentation, solos, appearance, professional presentation and performance, etc. People do notice. I always take pride in the fact that if I have the same band lineup that the same songs sounded the same six months ago as they sound today. People who hear a band frequently want to hear the songs the same way they are used to hearing them. I have had musicians and non musical audience members comment about my band's consistency in the past and I appreciate them noticing. It makes the band sound more polished and tight as well.

 

[pwhalen]

I have compared and contrasted those two basses over and over, even made recordings doing it, and the only difference I hear when the strings are of similar wear is the Fender has a tiny bit more fret rattle because the action is slightly lower. So they made the comments, and me being the guy who's supposed to know why they made those comments because it's my job, figured that the fret rattle probably had less to do with it than the newness of the strings on the Fender.


The only ones who could possibly be offended by that are the ones who identify with that subset of musicians who think their audiences are stupid. If you're not in that subset, then you won't be offended. And if you are, then I don't care if you're offended or not.

The OP has nothing to with audiences being stupid, it has to do with what they notice/care about. And I'm not offended. I just think you are a condescending a-hole.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

It is incorrect and inexcusable for performers to disrespect audiences, especially behind their backs on a forum like this. Anyone who convinces themselves that audience-blaming is ok, is really just trying to cover their own inadequacies, and should tell their gear immediately and retire permanently. Audience-blamers have no future as performers anyway.

I like your statement!

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I just think you are a condescending a-hole.

Why should you use such a mean word among us, the musicians/bass players?
If you have met JimmyM somewhere on stage, you would be happy to talk with him, share stories, enjoy...
The same thing if JimmyM stopped at your gig...

 

[SteveCS]

There's a lot of talking loud not saying much going on now.
The fundamental permise is this - there is a chance that someone in the audience cares and the nay-sayers cannot prove otherwise. We cannot say what proportion, or how many, but given the number of new instruments manufactured and sold every year there is a pretty good chance that someone out there is a player, which in turn means the person standing or sitting behind that instrument on the stage will have that person's full attention. How people choose to react to this will be down to their individual natures, but the earth is round...

 

[Vara La Fey]

I've been defending audiences against their (fortunately few) blamers, so I prolly oughta say why.

My theory....

Audiences have spent their lives hearing well-written, well-played, well-sung and well-produced music. From 78rmp LPs to the latest streaming services, that's what they are used to. Same as we are.

They know what's well-done when they hear it. It doesn't matter if they don't know why. The proof is always in the pudding, and you don't have to know how to cook it in order to know if it's well-made.

Any remotely honest musician or other industry pro already knows that national bands are almost always more well-made than local bands, and that Saturday bands are almost always better than Wednesday bands. Better at writing and/or playing and/or singing and/or performing. And usually better at most or all of those.

Audiences determine whether a band goes national or stays on the Wednesday slot. Not bigwigs, politics, or any other denialist excuse. It's audiences.

And no, it's not a matter of "they know what they like when they hear it", because that's how they support or boycott genres. It's a matter of they know what's good when they hear it, because that's how they support or boycott bands within those genres. They take some of them national, and they inexplicably continue being "too stupid to recognize the genius" of the Wednesday losers who can't write, play, sing or perform.

Consider also that most audience members within any geographic area (and within their favored genre) have supported and liked up-and-coming bands who had futures, and who were better than the bands they left behind (at least until they self-destructed).

And yet most musicians in that same area (and genre) have NOT been IN those bands. And many of them are critical of those bands.

The audience is better at picking winners than we are.

Some of us may have all-consuming emotional motives for trying to live in denial of this, but we do so at our peril.

Aaaand that's my theory.

 

[maturanesa]

That's because I didn't. Yeah, I made a crack about needing to change my strings more often. Whoopee. But instead of focusing on anything else, he's insisting on laser focusing on that and ignoring everything else. That is why I am no longer going to reply to him regarding this topic. It's an absolutely ridiculous thing to focus on, and no matter how hard anyone tries to redirect his focus to the important stuff, he insists on sticking with that.

Whatever.

So, you told an history as an example and it have nothing to do with the concept.
Is it ridicoulus to focus on your own example?

Why did you write it in first place if it doesn't illustrate what you think?

 

[oldmetalhead]

Ok. This is getting too long. There will always be someone who cares. Even if they don't know what or why they do. I enjoy listening to live musicians. Doesn't matter if the bass player sounds like Flea playing Metallica, if it's played well then kudos for being his own. I enjoy my sound and playing style and have fun performing. Been doing it since the early 80's. I even enjoy the new technology and have been playing with amp modeling and such. But I personally will never spend hours trying to exactly match another players sound. It's theirs. Kind of reminds me of everyone running out to but a Rick and all the guitarists getting double necks to play the one or two Rush songs. Anyway, just play and have fun. If you like your sound then rock on. If a simple change seemed to make your sound better then use it. Many of us just do this for fun. So my my nightly gig goals are:
1. Play well
2. Have fun
3. Help the audience have fun.
4. Again, have fun
If you are a full time player then your list will be tailored to your current situation. Nut numbers 2 and 4 always apply.

 

[maturanesa]

Which brings us to another point that should be made, especially to the naysayers...who says this experience a couple days ago is a singular event? Does anyone really believe that after 40 years of playing professionally that this is the only time that non-musicians have commented on my playing or sound in a way that shows me that they're listening with somewhat sophisticated ears ? Get real. This was just the latest example. No, it doesn't happen on every gig, but it has happened many times over the course of 40 years. And sometimes I was rather unhappy about their input, although these days it seems to be happening less. Maybe I'm getting better

But hey, you naysayers feel free to keep assuming that your audiences are musical nitwits. You're just clearing a path for guys like me to swoop in and win their hearts. And your gigs.

Now the guy talking about his 40 years of professional career and assuming the other people dont care about the audience, and that's why he has the gig and you don't

I SAW THAT COMING... it was a question of time...

 

[Joe Nerve]

200 strange drunks at Bob's Tap Room on Friday night? Odds are you can put off changing your strings a bit longer.

Not sure why, but that line cracked me up . Almost sig worthy, but I already have way too much goin on down there.

 

[Blankandson]

Before this gets too long and boring (probably already too long), head down to the SOUTH side of Orlando, to Kissimmee. If you want to sit back and relax and hear some 'retirees' who spent their lives on the road with famous folk, head to "Jazz Meets Motown," usually every Monday night at different locals. Currently at the Bella Room at 5795 West Irlo Bronson Memorial Highway US 192.
Great Jazz Concert and Jazz Jam played by world class musicians, a three Grammy winner, a two time Grammy winner, Emmy and Tony nominees, Platinum and Gold record holders, a composer artist who wrote some music for Academy Award winner twelve Years A Slave, a top five finalist for America got Talent. Jazz Meets Motown has talent and plenty of it. Like Miami Sound Machine? How about Kool and the Gang. They play in this group almost every week. And the admission (around $10 or whatever you want to donate) goes to a local charity. So if 3000 goofy retirees scare you off, head south my friend. Oh, they even have a Facebook account so look them up. The wife and I go almost weekly every winter when we hang out in Orlando.

 

[maturanesa]

I've been defending audiences against their (fortunately few) blamers, so I prolly oughta say why.

My theory....

Audiences have spent their lives hearing well-written, well-played, well-sung and well-produced music. From 78rmp LPs to the latest streaming services, that's what they are used to. Same as we are.

They know what's well-done when they hear it. It doesn't matter if they don't know why. The proof is always in the pudding, and you don't have to know how to cook it in order to know if it's well-made.

Any remotely honest musician or other industry pro already knows that national bands are almost always more well-made than local bands, and that Saturday bands are almost always better than Wednesday bands. Better at writing and/or playing and/or singing and/or performing. And usually better at most or all of those.

Audiences determine whether a band goes national or stays on the Wednesday slot. Not bigwigs, politics, or any other denialist excuse. It's audiences.

And no, it's not a matter of "they know what they like when they hear it", because that's how they support or boycott genres. It's a matter of they know what's good when they hear it, because that's how they support or boycott bands within those genres. They take some of them national, and they inexplicably continue being "too stupid to recognize the genius" of the Wednesday losers who can't write, play, sing or perform.

Consider also that most audience members within any geographic area (and within their favored genre) have supported and liked up-and-coming bands who had futures, and who were better than the bands they left behind (at least until they self-destructed).

And yet most musicians in that same area (and genre) have NOT been IN those bands. And many of them are critical of those bands.

The audience is better at picking winners than we are.

Some of us may have all-consuming emotional motives for trying to live in denial of this, but we do so at our peril.

Aaaand that's my theory.

They have knowledge about music and live performance.
But that doesn't mean you should care about their opinions about your instrument's setup and sound.

 

[Top 40]

EDIT: Sorry if posted in the wrong forum. Had no idea where to post it.

Did a gig last night at an outdoor venue at The Villages in Fla (a big giant retirement community) that I play once a month, and we get a lot of regulars. I've been using my Hammersmith with a very dead set of Dunlop Super Bright Nickels there pretty much exclusively most of the year. Tonight I got a wild hair and brought out my modded 76 Precision with a newish set of the same strings instead. Both these basses have Geezer PJ's, and to me they sound about the same when the strings have comparable wear. Everything else was the same as usual...REDDI into the PA, same pedals I've been using all year set the same way and used in the same songs, same sound tech we usually have there and the same PA, which is a decent but not particularly great PA (a souped-up and somewhat customized Bose PA...one of the bigwigs of the Bose family lives at the Villages and has the ear of the family who owns the Villages).

I probably had 20 people who are regulars at our gigs come up to me on break and ask me how come the Fender sounded so much edgier and aggressive than the Hammersmith. Only one of them plays an instrument, and while most were guys, plenty of women said the same thing.

So if I ever hear any of you jokers try to claim that the audience doesn't know or care about your sound again, I will tell you that you're a very arrogant person who has zero respect for your audiences. Of course, I have been saying that for years, but now I've got proof. A big outdoor venue with about 3000 people there in various states of inebriation, and several non-musicians noticed that the strings on the Fender made it sound edgier.

The lesson I learned is I need to change my strings more often The lesson YOU should learn is that if you think your audience is so stupid that they can't tell the difference in your sound no matter what you use, maybe they're not the stupid ones.

Happy holidays, everyone!

I have a friend who noticed a different, "Metallic sound", coming from my bass. Told her I had just put on a new set of strings.

 

[mobdirt]

I have a friend who noticed a different, "Metallic sound", coming from my bass. Told her I had just put on a new set of strings.

you should have asked metallic how

 

[mobdirt]

great meme idea

 

[Whil57]

24 Pages and no one mentioned. Now if i was in Jimmy's place, and people told me my tone was edgier, and more aggressive, i wouldnt have attributed it to the new strings "sound". I would have attributed it to the fact i get more "dig" and less slippage from a new set than an older set, thereby causing me to be able to play harder and more "exact?". Thats how i would have viewed it in his place. So to each their own interpretation. As the engineers tend to tell me, you want to sound more aggressive, play more aggressive. But if you want to attribute that to the tone from the new set of strings, feel free if thats what you think. I dont completely disagree, but no one has taken the playability into account.

 

[mobdirt]

 

[SteveCS]

... assuming the other people dont care about the audience
...

Nobody is assuming anything - the threads and posts telling those of us who care that "the audience doesn't care and so why should we?" are all here in black and white...

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Now if i was in Jimmy's place...

Start a new thread called, "If I was in JimmyM's place".

 

[JimmyM]

The OP has nothing to with audiences being stupid, it has to do with what they notice/care about. And I'm not offended. I just think you are a condescending a-hole.

I don't care. I sure seem to have a lot of folks on here who like and respect me, though, and I like and respect them. That didn't happen by accident. So I'll concentrate on them and not worry so much about the handful of folks like you who don't. I gave up trying to please everyone a long time ago. So bye.