You think the audience doesn't notice? Think again!

[10cc]

Must be some sad and depressing songs. Man, I'll never understand why so many bass players allow themselves to be so beaten down. What a senseless waste of time and money to spend on something you feel is so unimportant. Glad I don't have those issues.

See that's it right there, you are so far of the mark. My songs are full of joy. I'm not beaten down and I've never felt unimportant. Wow.... you really are messed up. Pretty funny though.

This song is about a girl who does weird stuff when her parents aren't home. Her name is Summer Small. The bass is the last thing I was thinking about when I wrote it. Bigger fish to fry.

Or maybe you'd like something more edgier and aggressive.

 

[JimmyM]

See that's it right there, you are so far of the mark. My songs are full of joy. I'm not beaten down and I've never felt unimportant. Wow.... you really are messed up. Pretty funny though.

Hey, you said how unimportant bass players are, not me.

Liked the first song, BTW.

 

[tfer]

I’m coming to the conclusion that far too many bassists read far too many memes about their skill level and ultimate lack of importance in a musical situation, and it’s affected their self-esteem.

Without trying to brag, I’m by far the most musically educated and adventurous member of my band. I play below the 5th fret about 25% of the time - the rest, I’m exploring the changes, and trying to add musical interest with both my note/rhythm choices, and my sonic pallet. It has become a big part of my band’s signature. I rarely play the existing recorded parts, unless they are an integral part of the song.

Sadly, many bassists have been beaten down by popular perception.

 

[maturanesa]

Setup? No, the setup is cooking the pudding (where the proof is), most of them know nothing about that, and the cooking is none of their business. Have you actually had non-musicians voice opinions about your setup?

Sound? Yes, you should care to a point, cause that's part of the pudding (where the proof is), and in an overall sense it is their business.

Your sound is the reflection of your setup (instrument, strings, pedals, eq, amp) and technique.
Its a decision you make. You are not deaf, right?
Any bad opinion about how your bass sounds implies criticism about the decisions you made (setup) in order to get that sound.

So, in my opinion, you dont have to care about what an audience member have to say about your bass tone since
he/she is not a sound tech, tone is subjetive and you have choosen that tone based on your taste.

For example, i listen to bands that i dont like that much the bass tone,
Do you think im gone go there and say "hey, your bass is too edgy"??

No way. Its his/her decision, he likes that, i like the band, so i dont care about the edgyness of his bass. Period. I Just enjoy it like it is..

 

[CharlieMac]

The Villages!!!! OMG!!! Don't get hit by a wayward golf cart while you're there.

For those of you who have never been to FL and visited this place, it is beyond description.

The Villages... The largest single beer distributor in Florida and the greatest incidence of new sexually transmitted diseases in Florida. No residents younger than 50 or so..
Now that's an audience!!

 

[rtslinger]

I will agree with you about this Jimmy. The year my mom passed, she went on a Thursday and I had a show that Sat. Regulars who come out to our shows, but aren't close enough to share my personal life with, approached me after the first set and said that I didn't sound like myself tonight. And yeah I wasn't playing with the same feel just going through the motions and they noticed. So I had to put on my game face for the rest of the show I'm sure that's what mom would have expected from me anyway.

 

[EastCoastThump]

Arguing about "what do audiences notice" is like arguing about how many watts do I need. It depends on contexts and specs.

Not all audiences are the same; not all audiences pay the same kinds of attention. Casino gigs, dinner set at a society wedding, 2nd dance set at a wedding, Jimmy's regular gig at The Villages, showcase at a listening venue, unknown band opening for a friend's band at a talk-and-drink venue? The kind and quality of the audience's engaged attention varies. And as people attend differently, what they notice changes.

So Jimmy over the years has passionately championed the audible differences between SVT emulation boxes A or B, $110 cab mic X and $400 cab mic Y, a $120 DI and $650 DI. And those threads have drawn comments from TBers saying some version of, "My Thursday night audiences at Joe's Chug and Grunt don't seem to register $500 worth of difference between a JDI and a REDDI." And it's perfectly possible that both positions are true. Audiences in listening rooms pay different kinds of attention than 35-year olds desperately hoping to swim clear of the wreckage of their second divorce by making meaningful eye contact with the plausible mid-life hottie across the bar while your cover band plays "I Can't Feel My Face."

What does that mean for your gear choices? You'll have to decide.

What does that mean for anyone's claims that "all audiences hear everything"? or "no audience anywhere has ever even noticed the bass player"? They're both wrong, but have at 'em if it floats your boat.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Your sound is the reflection of your setup (instrument, strings, pedals, eq, amp) and technique.

The venue - bar, hall, outdoor, stadium, etc..., how much audience, environment, etc... plays also a very significant role.

Any bad opinion about how your bass sounds implies criticism about the decisions you made (setup) in order to get that sound.

If I hear only low noise but not bass notes - is it a bad opinion?

For example, i listen to bands that i dont like that much the bass tone,
Do you think im gone go there and say "hey, your bass is too edgy"??

If you know the bass player, and/or if that bass player would ask your opinion - yes, you would express your opinion.

P.S. We got Jeff Berlin back! Let's leave JimmyM alone with his good gigs.

 

[maturanesa]

The venue - bar, hall, outdoor, stadium, etc..., how much audience, environment, etc... plays also a very significant role.



1- If I hear only low noise but not bass notes - is it a bad opinion?

2- If you know the bass player, and/or if that bass player would ask your opinion - yes, you would express your opinion.

P.S. We got Jeff Berlin back! Let's leave JimmyM alone with his good gigs.

1- Don't know, depends if the reason is the venue or the bassist's setup. The opinion is so vague...
2- Never saw a bassist asking for opinions in the audience. They pay a soundguy for that...

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Don't know, depends if the reason is the venue or the bassist's setup. The opinion is so vague.

I can answer using your own words:
I've never seen a bass player (a good one) who does not know about the venues aural impact on the band's sound/tone, and on the sound/tone of the bass guitar.
In short.
Lucky you if you are happy/if you care only how you sound (your bass) close to your amp, but...
NEVER, ever tell your opinion "that the venue/environment does NOT matter" to any, more or less knowledgeable Music industry representative - a musician/sound engineer.
Remember, the VENUE (a small bar, a big hall, a stadium, etc...) acts as YOUR SPEAKER box.

2- Never saw a bassist asking for opinions in the audience. They pay a soundguy for that...

Here is another interesting thing from my experience.
(Just one of numerous points about the sound engineer's job, issues...)

1.In some cases, there is a "fighting" going on between a musician/bass player and a sound engineer.
(Any sound engineer is a complete world full of the sound engineer's Aural vision, music taste, preferences, job requirements, etc...)

A bass player (most usually) cares about the bass tone/sound, while the sound engineer must think about lots of things, and listen to so many complaints from vocalist/s, and other musicians.
2. I have NEVER seen a musician/bass player (serious) who says, "I don't give a damn how my instrument sounds."
3. I'm getting tired that some of our TB members tend to see something else - not what JimmyM wrote in his post. JimmyM has NOT started walking around tables/audience and asking the audience opinion/s about his bass tone.

Here is MY personal opinion.
If I have a friend in the audience who knows about Music, Sound, etc... - a musician - and I respect the person's opinion - I WILL listen to the person's opinion.
Anyway.
I think you are fighting some (internal) battle about something.
You have your opinion - ONE opinion among MILLIONS of Musicians' opinions - I have nothing against it.
I have MY opinion - ONE opinion among MILLIONS of Musicians' opinions - I have nothing against it.

P.S. Please say hello to Jeff Berlin, and get serious about your bass lessons/questions.

 

[Son of Wobble]

Guy changes strings.

Twenty-six page thread.

Talk Bass

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Guy changes strings.

Twenty-six page thread.

Talk Bass

You are watching The Game of Strings.

 

[mobdirt]

ordered the velcro

 

[JimmyM]

Arguing about "what do audiences notice" is like arguing about how many watts do I need. It depends on contexts and specs.

Not all audiences are the same; not all audiences pay the same kinds of attention. Casino gigs, dinner set at a society wedding, 2nd dance set at a wedding, Jimmy's regular gig at The Villages, showcase at a listening venue, unknown band opening for a friend's band at a talk-and-drink venue? The kind and quality of the audience's engaged attention varies. And as people attend differently, what they notice changes.

So Jimmy over the years has passionately championed the audible differences between SVT emulation boxes A or B, $110 cab mic X and $400 cab mic Y, a $120 DI and $650 DI. And those threads have drawn comments from TBers saying some version of, "My Thursday night audiences at Joe's Chug and Grunt don't seem to register $500 worth of difference between a JDI and a REDDI." And it's perfectly possible that both positions are true. Audiences in listening rooms pay different kinds of attention than 35-year olds desperately hoping to swim clear of the wreckage of their second divorce by making meaningful eye contact with the plausible mid-life hottie across the bar while your cover band plays "I Can't Feel My Face."

What does that mean for your gear choices? You'll have to decide.

What does that mean for anyone's claims that "all audiences hear everything"? or "no audience anywhere has ever even noticed the bass player"? They're both wrong, but have at 'em if it floats your boat.

That's a logical and reasonable post, but my intention was never to promote one extreme or the other. My intention was to tell people who think their audiences are stupid that they may want to reconsider. Has nothing to do with gear choices whatsoever, but the general attitude that many musicians have that they're way smarter and more sophisticated than the unwashed masses they play for.

 

[10cc]

Who is Jeff Berlin?

 

[Pbassmanca]

Your audience isn’t going to know a bunch of detail and subtle nuances in your tone and style, but they’re not dumb. They know when they hear something they like or don’t like, and can certainly tell when you’re on point.

All I care, is that my audience hears my mids, and feels my bass. Treble.......meh.....

 

[2112]

That's a logical and reasonable post, but my intention was never to promote one extreme or the other. My intention was to tell people who think their audiences are stupid that they may want to reconsider. Has nothing to do with gear choices whatsoever, but the general attitude that many musicians have that they're way smarter and more sophisticated than the unwashed masses they play for.

Well... if that was truly your intent, why did you say in your OP:

"So if I ever hear any of you jokers try to claim that the audience doesn't know or care about your sound again, I will tell you that you're a very arrogant person who has zero respect for your audiences."

I see disparity here. And an inappropriate mixing of issues.

Even though there are those that actually believe their audiences have no idea about their sound, this doesn't mean they necessarily think their audiences are "stupid". Even so, I say again... who cares what anyone thinks about their audiences... everybody does what they do for selfish reasons. You play gigs because YOU respect your audience and want to please them, which is just great. Others (myself included) may play for this or other reasons that satisfy them (us) , their (our) reasons are no better or worse than yours. Honestly, it doesn't really matter what the reasons are as long as the contractual obligations are met.

Regardless, it seems we could have saved ourselves this 26+ page waste-of-time if you had simply been honest about your intent to begin with instead of attempting an ad hominem attack against those who do it differently than you.

 

[Spidey2112]

You are watching The Game of Strings.

I like dragons...

 

[JimmyM]

Well... if that was truly your intent, why did you say in your OP:

"So if I ever hear any of you jokers try to claim that the audience doesn't know or care about your sound again, I will tell you that you're a very arrogant person who has zero respect for your audiences."

I see disparity here. And an inappropriate mixing of issues.

Even though there are those that actually believe their audiences have no idea about their sound, this doesn't mean they necessarily think their audiences are "stupid". Even so, I say again... who cares what anyone thinks about their audiences... everybody does what they do for selfish reasons. You play gigs because YOU respect your audience and want to please them, which is just great. Others (myself included) may play for this or other reasons that satisfy them (us) , their (our) reasons are no better or worse than yours. Honestly, it doesn't really matter what the reasons are as long as the contractual obligations are met.

Regardless, it seems we could have saved ourselves this 26+ page waste-of-time if you had simply been honest about your intent to begin with instead of attempting an ad hominem attack against those who do it differently than you.

Whatever. Thanks for participating in this 26 page waste of time. Bye now.

 

[2112]

Whatever. Thanks for participating in this 26 page waste of time. Bye now.

Abrupt dismissal and a move to discredit doesn't change anything: it is, and will remain, what it is.