He’s a guy with an incredible knowledge of music & a technical proficiency more highly developed than some guy named Jaco, (whoever Jaco was)
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And you have an odd way of rejecting something that should be common knowledge with musicians. And if you reject it, then the only possible reason I can see for rejecting it is wanting to cling to the belief that your audiences know nothing about music. The science angle is such an out-there dodge that I can only see it as a distraction from the real issue you have with it. What science could you possibly need or want to convince musicians that their audiences aren't all ignorant dopes when it comes to music?
Again, it's like you're talking to someone that's not there saying things that no one said.
I'm out. Happy New year everyone.
Right, because nobody on Talkbass EVER says how ignorant the audience is....RIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT!
Happy new year to you, too!
I’ve read that same observation many times.
When challenged, the OP usually speaks about the musical knowledge level of the general population. However, I submit that we are NOT playing for the general population - we are playing for fans of live music, and I think it would be foolish to underestimate the perceptiveness of people who go out of their way to hear it.
Yer darn tootin'!!! Although now and then I do see people getting dragged to our gigs by their spouses, by and large, we are not playing for people who dislike live music.
I didn’t read where Jimmy was out. That was Gorn...Something told me that even though you said you were out... you'd be back.
To be fair, I think most people who claim that the audience can't hear it are talking about the stuff that we obsess about round here - tone woods, bolt v. Set v. Thru necks, fender vintage reissue v. Custom shop pickups or nitro v. Poly finishes. The difference between new and old strings is MUCH bigger than any one of those and anyone who thinks that doesn't make a difference IS as stupid and/or arrogant as you say they are. The other things, I doubt band mates can hear at a loud practice.EDIT: Sorry if posted in the wrong forum. Had no idea where to post it.
Did a gig last night at an outdoor venue at The Villages in Fla (a big giant retirement community) that I play once a month, and we get a lot of regulars. I've been using my Hammersmith with a very dead set of Dunlop Super Bright Nickels there pretty much exclusively most of the year. Tonight I got a wild hair and brought out my modded 76 Precision with a newish set of the same strings instead. Both these basses have Geezer PJ's, and to me they sound about the same when the strings have comparable wear. Everything else was the same as usual...REDDI into the PA, same pedals I've been using all year set the same way and used in the same songs, same sound tech we usually have there and the same PA, which is a decent but not particularly great PA (a souped-up and somewhat customized Bose PA...one of the bigwigs of the Bose family lives at the Villages and has the ear of the family who owns the Villages).
I probably had 20 people who are regulars at our gigs come up to me on break and ask me how come the Fender sounded so much edgier and aggressive than the Hammersmith. Only one of them plays an instrument, and while most were guys, plenty of women said the same thing.
So if I ever hear any of you jokers try to claim that the audience doesn't know or care about your sound again, I will tell you that you're a very arrogant person who has zero respect for your audiences. Of course, I have been saying that for years, but now I've got proof. A big outdoor venue with about 3000 people there in various states of inebriation, and several non-musicians noticed that the strings on the Fender made it sound edgier.
The lesson I learned is I need to change my strings more oftenThe lesson YOU should learn is that if you think your audience is so stupid that they can't tell the difference in your sound no matter what you use, maybe they're not the stupid ones.
Happy holidays, everyone!
Something told me that even though you said you were out... you'd be back.
Have you ever played a live show? You know, one where the audience actually enjoys themselves?
Hundreds over the past 30+ years. Had a lot of fun with the audiences over these decades. Lots of regular & repeat performances. Large private parties via word-of-mouth. I guess that's surprising to those of you who can't see past yourselves and understand that success can indeed be achieved without being in lockstep with the guy in charge at Jimmyworld.
It's like Burger King saying you can't be successful, you think your customers are stupid, and you shouldn't be selling burgers unless you do it their way. Ask the Wendy's franchisees how they feel about that.
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You can be fun with different motives than that of the Jimmyworld guy. Free your mind. Freethinking is fun.
Ah ha. Thanks.He’s a guy with an incredible knowledge of music & a technical proficiency more highly developed than some guy named Jaco, (whoever Jaco was)
Never much of a Jaco fan though.
No! Cannot freethink. I am a member of the Order of Jimmy! Must comply with Jimmyworld Protocol! Must not deviate!
Just to clarify, it's 2112 that I was done with, not this thread. I created this thread and I'm damn proud of it and I own every word I've said in it, and I'm glad to have a discussion with those who may not agree and will continue to do so as long as anyone wants. But I'm not here for a ****-sizing contest. And unlike Disney, Jimmyworld is in California and Jimmyland is in Florida
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I think there are things that make a huge difference and others that don't matter all that much as well. There are some things I used to think that didn't matter at all that I now think matter a lot and vice versa. Some may not agree with me about what those things are and aren't, and that's cool, and if they feel it's important, then it's important. Pickups used to be unimportant to me until I changed a bass that sounded horrible to me into one that sounded awesome to me. Finishes are unimportant to me, but to someone else, they can make the difference between being very comfortable with their instrument and fighting it all the time. If something isn't working out for the player, they should change it because they're the ones who have to use their gear, and only they know what's important to them. And to me, the #1 lamest reason for not trying to make things better or more comfortable for yourself as a player is "The audience doesn't know."
If I'm in your audience, you best believe I know every noise that's being played on that stage. You may never know that I know, but trust me...I do. I know what key your songs are in, I know who on the stage is playing what, and if you have a specialty tuning going on, it doesn't take me too long to figure that out, either. And the mix has to be pretty darn muddy for me not to hear every note, every awesome riff and every clam that every person on that stage makes. You might be able to slide a quick clam in on me here and there, but under most circumstances I hear it all. I know what good music is supposed to sound like, and I know when it's good and when it's bad, and who's screwing the pooch up there when it's bad. And I know if you have a crappy sound, and most of the time I know why. I am not special, either. I know plenty of musicians with that ability, and I've had plenty of those musicians in my audiences, some of whom might have a job for me in the future. All of you do, too. So play the "audience doesn't know" game at your own risk. It might just work out great for you. It also might just cost you a gig you'd kill to have and you'll never even know it.
To me, the distinction between saying "The audience doesn't know" and "The audience is stupid" is one without much of a difference. If you just assumed I didn't know without knowing anything about me, I would consider it exactly the same as you telling me I'm a moron.
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