Then I take back the "idiots" partThey did figure out that the REDDI isn't a B15 clone pretty early on.There's a lot of conjecture in the first few pages until someone took a REDDI apart and traced out the schematic.
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Your Suggestion As The Best High-End Bass Preamp for Recording - 2017
- Thread starter BassHappy
- Start date
Hey Jimmy
It's a bit of a tangent - but my amp thing, as I think you may know - has always been a bit spotty and inconsequential. When we did the first record at A&M Ken had the second engineer round up all the bass amps in all their studios. He even rented a couple. I remember at the time, there was my Hiwatt stack, a Marshall stack, a Dual Showman, an SVT, a Sunn Coliseum and an Acoustic 360. There were also a few oddball amps I don't think I ever saw before or after. There was also the B-15 which was hooked into some wooden iso port which could be mic'd at various points inside the chute. Since we had a gazillion tracks, Ken mic'ed up all the amps and printed them all. As we needed to free up tracks he would comp the amp sounds together as he saw fit at the time.
We soon realized that the direct signal into the Trident with the LA2A/Urie 1176 chain was far superior to the amp sounds for my playing style. We muted all the amp tracks in the mix, and eventually we just scrubbed them. On the second record, I got Ken to mix in some mild tube amp distortion on "Service With a Smile" but it's really a very VERY subtle effect. After that learning experience, I never bothered with mic'ing any amps in the studio. But a great preamp is essential. I know I can't afford a Trident and a vintage LA2A and a Urie 1176 - so I am trying to find the next best thing. I am hopeful with the plug-in idea though and of course, I would love to try them all and taste and compare....
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Well I don't know how good they are, but a company called Warm Audio makes lower priced "versions" of the LA2A and 1176. Haven't tried the plugins but they're very well-reviewed.
But honestly, I'd probably just stick with what's been working for you...the Aggie pre into the Summit. Not like they're sneezed at
IIRC, that's the same guy behind Collective Cases too. Ordered from him for my SA-3A build.
Then I take back the "idiots" part
By all accounts he's a stand-up guy but it just sticks in my craw a bit that he clearly reverse engineered the REDDI and cloned it. Apparently it sounds different than the REDDI which is not surprising as the choice of OT in that sort of circuit can have a pretty big sonic impact.
It does me a little bit, too, but Peter didn't invent the tube/OT DI, either. Of course, he didn't just take a Groove Tubes Brick or an Evil Twin and clone it with a different OT. At least I don't think he did
Maybe check out Daking? His preamps are in the A Range (pun intended). The UA plugs can get you pretty close to the LA2A -> 1176 sound as well. You may not be as far off as you think.
Hmmmmm, didn't know UA offered the A-Range console EQ's we used:
For $249 - Thinking, re-thinking.....
For $249 - Thinking, re-thinking.....
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Only money, and you can’t take it with you...
Now I see that the SoftTube version is being blown out for 99 bucks at Sweetwater....
You know, I have to hand it to some of these software developers...there are many excellent plugins of this nature. Don't know if I'd like them better than the real things, but I really like some of them. One of my favorite plugins ever is the Waves RCL compressor, and their 1176 and LA2A plugins are supposed to be great, too. But I need to get more up on what's current...you can usually find free demo versions of them, and I should try a few. The demos have limitations, of course, but you can get an idea.
I definitely agree with you Jimmy. I have 6 piano tracks done along with the drum tracks for [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]new record - and some of the orchestration done on those songs. But we are focusing on getting the last of the piano tracks recorded, and we are still working out those arrangements. I have recorded a couple of sketchpad tracks for the bass tracks, but I want to use my new basses on most of the final tracks on this one. They were shipped Fedex to me yesterday from L.A. and I still have to do the electronic installs. They are all different piezos and there will be some experimentation. By then I hope to have all the piano tracks done so I can start in on the final bass tracks when the basses are ready. The point is, I haven't really been ready yet to experiment much with plug-ins and samples. We love to record in fall/winter and mix in the spring, so looking toward a late spring or early summer release.
Looking back, I really do appreciate the musicality of the Trident boards. The frequencies are all fixed - but seem to be fixed at exactly the right places and I know where the sweet spots are for my playing style. And you are right, they do have trial versions so you can check them out in advance so, I have to see - but it looks like a logical direction to head in. A lot will be based on how the LA2A and 1176 plug-ins perform.
My guru and teacher:
More here for those who can't get enough. He is in promo mode but still a decent overview:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
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What universal Audio converter do you use?
The thing about preamps is that there are so many good ones that, it is best to identify your use case and go from there.
For me, I want the same general tone wherever I record - my studio or another one. Or when I play live. So I use the Noble preamp and just show up with my bass and pedalboard. I have gotten a lot of work with the Noble preamp since I am giving these producers a very mixable tone that they love. It basically is a high quality tube bass preamp with great EQ and now I use it on every single thing I do.
Do you need a Noble preamp? No. I think having a tube preamp is key on bass, but there are a ton. So many options that you probably just want to go with one that fits your use case and then master it.
One thing you can do to update your chain is to add a neve or API channel strip in there. Honestly, I think your chain is already looking good.
I see the Aguilar does that kind of vibe, but I am not too familiar with that gear. The one thing I did not like about tracking with Aguilar (tonehammer) is the fake tube warming thing their gear does just didn't really work for me. Your aguilar may be different tonally though.
The thing about preamps is that there are so many good ones that, it is best to identify your use case and go from there.
For me, I want the same general tone wherever I record - my studio or another one. Or when I play live. So I use the Noble preamp and just show up with my bass and pedalboard. I have gotten a lot of work with the Noble preamp since I am giving these producers a very mixable tone that they love. It basically is a high quality tube bass preamp with great EQ and now I use it on every single thing I do.
Do you need a Noble preamp? No. I think having a tube preamp is key on bass, but there are a ton. So many options that you probably just want to go with one that fits your use case and then master it.
One thing you can do to update your chain is to add a neve or API channel strip in there. Honestly, I think your chain is already looking good.
I see the Aguilar does that kind of vibe, but I am not too familiar with that gear. The one thing I did not like about tracking with Aguilar (tonehammer) is the fake tube warming thing their gear does just didn't really work for me. Your aguilar may be different tonally though.
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I'm late to get in on this, but I second the earlier post recommending the Noble preamp/DI. I do lots of work on the recording/producing side as well as on bass, and the Noble is the first box I've recorded with that makes the bass sit in the track perfectly without having to do tons of processing. I have found that it works especially well with Fender-style instruments, but that's mostly what I play anyway. The Noble is also great as a live DI - I've had a couple of different front-of-house engineers say it was the best bass sound they had ever heard.
For what it's worth, basstasters.com has many preamp sound samples with different basses and strings you could listen to at least to survey the field. Lots of good pres in there.
One other thought - a retrospec squeezebox is an all-tube preamp that you could set as a limiter and has really nice and "big" tube tone with tones of headroom. Has an EQ knob that actually covers a good deal of range. Not cheap, however.
Good luck, DM
One other thought - a retrospec squeezebox is an all-tube preamp that you could set as a limiter and has really nice and "big" tube tone with tones of headroom. Has an EQ knob that actually covers a good deal of range. Not cheap, however.
Good luck, DM
Wow, just checked in and saw several additional posts. I thought this thread might be a done deal, happy to see it isn't quite yet.
I appreciate all the suggestions, and believe me - most anything tube driven is still on the table. I love this place - always a bunch of fine folks ready to speak their truth and give you their best advice and suggestions. Much appreciated.
Will check back in and let you know how the experimentation pans out.... Thanks for all!
I appreciate all the suggestions, and believe me - most anything tube driven is still on the table. I love this place - always a bunch of fine folks ready to speak their truth and give you their best advice and suggestions. Much appreciated.
Will check back in and let you know how the experimentation pans out.... Thanks for all!
Got a couple of other pres to add to the list to check out. The millenia media sst1 origin pre its like the td1 on crack a bit more coin but worthy, The Warwick hellborg and Phil Jones p1 are pretty amazing and if you want really versatile get a radial 10 space powered lunch box and some 500 series modules then you can get Empirical labs, Api, Neve and a whole slew of other goodies all in the same 3 space rack. These are just 4 options I didnt see mentioned granted they are by no means cheap
Hey Ethereal
Hey, thanks for all your suggestions. I am picking up the Trident A Range UA Plug-In and starting with exploring the chain I used on the records my band did with Ken Scott. Ken helped pioneer the Trident A Range - and I am really comfortable with it. Only recently found out they had made a plug in for it which makes me very happy. I was always blown away with the bass sound that Ken managed to achieve.
I already have the 1176 and the LA2A plug ins which I will chain together as described above. Played around a bit, but I really want to add the Trident to the mix. Not a big fan of the Neve, API, or any other console strips - I am a tried and true Trident guy for the reasons detailed above - and the unbelievable warmth and musicality they exude.
I mentioned the Millenia in an early post. Used it "live" a few times and my engineer and I liked it - but didn't love it. Of course, if I can't get to where I want to be with the Trident/1176/LA2A chain, I will start working my way down the list.
Thanks again to all for your considered opinions and suggestions!
My only question on that trident plugin is it's processing audio after hitting your A/D convertors correct?
