Your tips and tricks to cut through the mix?

[Shenron]

I guess this is a common situation: your bass sounds great while everybody else is silent, then as soon as everyone starts playing, you can't hear the bass much anymore.

How do you usually manage it? Occasionally, just messing up with my pickups and tone knobs helps, but I can't always say why as it depends on the song (and probably on what the others are playing with their instruments). I also have an active Ibanez with the "PHAT EQ" which if I understand correctly boosts the mids and that usually does the trick for me but it's essentially increasing my volume overall. I am contemplating using an equaliser in between, I have a Zoom B1Four for practicing that I could try put to some use for that.

But generally, the challenge seems to be how to keep up with the changes to the mix across different songs, as the guitarists change their own sounds with their pedals, so that when I find a setting that helps me on one song, it might not help on another.

Do you tend to stick to one equalisation setup all the time? If you change it between songs, do you remember what works best in each (or do you use patches on a pedal) or do you adjust it in the middle of a song?

 

[Michedelic]

I guess this is a common situation: your bass sounds great while everybody else is silent, then as soon as everyone starts playing, you can't hear the bass much anymore.

How do you usually manage it? Occasionally, just messing up with my pickups and tone knobs helps, but I can't always say why as it depends on the song (and probably on what the others are playing with their instruments). I also have an active Ibanez with the "PHAT EQ" which if I understand correctly boosts the mids and that usually does the trick for me but it's essentially increasing my volume overall. I am contemplating using an equaliser in between, I have a Zoom B1Four for practicing that I could try put to some use for that.

But generally, the challenge seems to be how to keep up with the changes to the mix across different songs, as the guitarists change their own sounds with their pedals, so that when I find a setting that helps me on one song, it might not help on another.

Do you tend to stick to one equalisation setup all the time? If you change it between songs, do you remember what works best in each (or do you use patches on a pedal) or do you adjust it in the middle of a song?

This is why I’m a fan of extensive EQ options on my amp; every room/stage is different, you can’t babysit the sound person if going through the PA, and any tone sculpting I do at either the bass or through pre-amps/pedals is to address the nature of any particular bass. As I use at least two basses, I employ an original Radial Bassbone which gives me the choice between two separate settings, which are employed in a subtle manner.

 

[SteveCS]

I guess this is a common situation: your bass sounds great while everybody else is silent, then as soon as everyone starts playing, you can't hear the bass much anymore.

How do you usually manage it? Occasionally, just messing up with my pickups and tone knobs helps, but I can't always say why as it depends on the song (and probably on what the others are playing with their instruments). I also have an active Ibanez with the "PHAT EQ" which if I understand correctly boosts the mids and that usually does the trick for me but it's essentially increasing my volume overall. I am contemplating using an equaliser in between, I have a Zoom B1Four for practicing that I could try put to some use for that.

But generally, the challenge seems to be how to keep up with the changes to the mix across different songs, as the guitarists change their own sounds with their pedals, so that when I find a setting that helps me on one song, it might not help on another.

Do you tend to stick to one equalisation setup all the time? If you change it between songs, do you remember what works best in each (or do you use patches on a pedal) or do you adjust it in the middle of a song?

Be sure not to confuse being 'present' in the FOH mix with hearing yourself on stage. I normally try to get a listen 'out front' as a sanity check then tweak my stage audibility through foldback monitors rather that changes to the amp (I don't do IEM). But they are two very different problems, IME.

 

[JRA]

How do you usually manage it?

you have to learn to "listen for it." of course, some moments are more challenging than others, and a lot depends on the situation/environment, but if you have the right equipment = it's there. if i keep the the volume consistent and low enough: everyone else will play/adjust to that.

 

[mambo4]

I only judge the sound of my bass in an ensemble. Alone, I tweak knobs as I like , but understanding that bedroom tone and band room tone are completely different animals. This is the reason I stopped using the active eq on my bass: I realized passive sounded better in the mix. If you have a bunch of bells and whistles for MY tone, try removing them selectively (in a full band setting) until you get some clarity back.

Also communicate with the band! A useable mix requires everyone to understand that OUR tone > MY tone. ( good luck with the guitarist … ) The best sounding live bands embrace this reality.

Every instrument has its place in the frequency spectrum, and nothing destroys that balance like an amateur trying to recreate their bedroom tone

Also realize that the modern , hip-hop and death metal influenced mixing aesthetic has placed bass guitar somewhere behind and beneath a subwoofer bass kick. I aim for a retro style mix from when the bass actually got heard

 

[Killing Floor]

Simple.

The “smiley face” EQ everyone on TalkBass recommends. Don’t do that. Your mids are more important for being heard between guitars and keys and vocals than your lows or highs. But for some weird anti-80s pop pushback TB will tell you to drop mids to the floor and you won’t cut through.

 

[ximun]

Add a jazz bridge pickup to your sound

 

[BGroovy]

mids mids mids mids.

Agree on the jazz bridge, those burpy mids CUT

 

[SteveCS]

The “smiley face” EQ everyone on TalkBass recommends.

Funny thing is this is one of the few places that , on balance, seems to know better and, rightly, does not recommend that awful scooped smiley-face 'bury-me-in-the-mix' approach.

 

[Groove Doctor]

Boost 150-400Hz range for more meat or girth . A 250Hz low mid knob is perfect.

Boost 1.6kHz for more clarity & a more articulate tone.

Use a HPF to cut unwanted rumble or mud. Set it around 35-80Hz to sit above the kick drum and not get lost in the low frequencies.

 

[bassicmike]

I'm not running the board so I don't worry about it.

If I can hear myself on stage, either through monitors or a small amp, I'm good.

 

[Shenron]

Boost 150-400Hz range for more meat or girth . A 250Hz low mid knob is perfect.

Boost 1.6kHz for more clarity & a more articulate tone.

Use a HPF to cut unwanted rumble or mud. Set it around 35-80Hz to sit above the kick drum and not get lost in the low frequencies.

Will try this out, thanks!

 

[Ritter667]

My trick is being the only, or at least, by far main instrument, beside drums and vocals.

Also mids are your friend, scoop them out and everything is going to sound like wet fart without any definition or articulation.

Especially boosting the area around 1kHz or so adds definition and articulation to your tone, and helps immensely with being heard in the mix.

 

[Wasnex]

My EQ strategy is basically turn up the mids/highs and turn down the lows. I dial in a sound that I hope will work, and almost always wind up boosting mids/highs and cutting lows even more.

I also like to elevate my cab and tilt it back to aim at my head. When you elevate the cab it puts, a little notch in the low mids. The frequency where the notch occurs depends on how high you get the cab off the floor. It's basically centered at the frequency where the distance from the drivers to the floor = 1/4 wavelength. The sound travels down 1/4 wavelength, bounces, and travels back up 1/4 wavelength. This puts the reflected sound 1/2 wavelength out of phase with the direct sound...so there is cancellation.


Tilting the cab is intended to aim the full bandwidth it produces at your ears. The directivity of speakers varies with frequency. The lowest frequencies are pretty much omnidirectional. As frequencies rises the wavelength gets smaller and eventually the drivers are large enough to exert pattern control. At higher frequencies the sound tends to form into a fairly narrow conical beam. This means if you are close to the cab and it is flat on the floor, the higher frequencies will shoot by you below waist level. Tilting the cab directs all of the sound coming from the cab towards your ears.

 

[Bob_Ross]

I had a bit of an epiphany ~15 or 20 years ago, when I realized that rather than figuring out how to "cut through the mix" it was easier -- and ultimately, more rewarding sonically -- to figure out how to "support the mix" ...which, more often than not, meant finding space underneath all the other instruments rather than finding a way to poke holes through all the other instruments.

 

[Ritter667]

I had a bit of an epiphany ~15 or 20 years ago, when I realized that rather than figuring out how to "cut through the mix" it was easier -- and ultimately, more rewarding sonically -- to figure out how to "support the mix" ...which, more often than not, meant finding space underneath all the other instruments rather than finding a way to poke holes through all the other instruments.

I'd say it really depends on the context and music in question which approach is appropriate, sometimes you need the bass to poke through, sometimes you need it to blend in like porridge.

 

[Shenron]

I'd say it really depends on the context and music in question which approach is appropriate, sometimes you need the bass to poke through, sometimes you need it to blend in like porridge.

This is a good way to put it. Nevertheless my favourite case when I listen to music, is to be able to hear each instrument rather than a blend. So naturally I also wish for that to happen when I play with others, that's why I'm asking how to get out of the porridge. It's not only my instrument I'd like to hear by the way.

 

[SaucyJackBass]

It only takes just a tiny bit of dirt. The ear hears distortion louder without it actually being louder.
Plus, make sure you bass sounds good by itself with rolled off mids. If the sound you like is the mids, that is what gets covered up once the band starts

 

[Wasnex]

I had a bit of an epiphany ~15 or 20 years ago, when I realized that rather than figuring out how to "cut through the mix" it was easier -- and ultimately, more rewarding sonically -- to figure out how to "support the mix" ...which, more often than not, meant finding space underneath all the other instruments rather than finding a way to poke holes through all the other instruments.

A couple of (IMHO) caveats:

1. If I can't hear a relatively clear attack and focused tone, it makes me feel disconnected from the bass, which I find unpleasant and frustrating. There is often excessive build up in the low mids that results in masking and reduces clarity of the bass. Also IMHO heavy lows tends to cause masking in a higher frequency range. For me dialing the bass into the mix usually entails turning up mids and treble while turning down the lows.
2. The sound of a bass changes as it travels over distance. In general your tone gets darker and more diffuse the further it gets from you rig. In order too deliver the desired sound to the audience, the tone has to start out a bit brighter and thinner.
3. My stage rig usually does not carry the room. It serves primarily as my personal monitor; so I set it up so I can hear as well as possible at the lowest volume. I also set it up so the high frequencies typically shoot out over the audience rater than towards them The idea is so the PA has more control over how the bass sounds in the room.

(YMMV)

 

[StyleOverShow]

Before the EQ there’s the strings and the technique. I like rotos myself and use their natural trebly response in conjunction with something like a half slap to produce a rhythmic pulse that characterizes my live sound. Half of it is in my hands, the bark if you will, and the other is setting on my active bass: roll up the bass; roll down the mids; add treble to taste. Viola!