buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
What sits in the mix is not the sound you want to hear alone. Mids and low mids.
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Your tips and tricks to cut through the mix?
- Thread starter Shenron
- Start date
- Apr 18, 2008
- 16,011
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- I'm highly opinionated and extremely self-assured
Unless you’re a “lead bassist”, don’t try to cut through the mix. Your job - everyone’s job, really - is to support the song, and play collaboratively with your bandmates.
If the group sounds good and the song is being delivered to the audience, then you’ve done well.
If the group sounds good and the song is being delivered to the audience, then you’ve done well.
What do you think happens when everyone is trying to "cut through the mix" simultaneously?
I'll give you a hint, it starts with M and ends with UD.
I'll give you a hint, it starts with M and ends with UD.
If everyone has the goal of cutting through the mix, there is no mix.
It takes the whole group to work together to have space in the mix so the group sounds good. Ignore how your rig sounds all by yourself. Don't scoop the mids, that's where your definition is.
It takes the whole group to work together to have space in the mix so the group sounds good. Ignore how your rig sounds all by yourself. Don't scoop the mids, that's where your definition is.
Reading these kind of dismissing arguments makes me question whether I have been using the wrong expression 'cut through the mix' (I am not a native English speaker) or are just unable to make my point.
First, to clarify we haven't had any gig yet, so this is about rehearsals.
I can hear the drums very well, it has always been the case. I can also hear the singer very well now, she used to be the least audible but eventually she worked something out between her voice, mic and mixer and now sounds great.
We have 2 guitars all the time plus 1 additional guitarist joining about half of the times. They change sounds and effects between songs, and this is what makes it difficult for following up, as this means the mix varies. Sometimes I hear them all 3 separately (which would be my favourite), other times I hear a good blend, and others a bad bland.
Half my question is whether there are ideas to generally keep your bass reasonably audible* across all songs, and the other half is maybe how other bassists manage to follow up changes caused by other instruments changing (just refusing to play with guitarists who change sounds is not an option for me but an understandable response for others).
*As I said, I like hearing everyone distinctly. If that's not doable but whatever audience we might have in the future doesn't mind, then fine. But at the very least I MUST be able to hear myself clearly enough. At least now I have a bunch of real suggestions from this thread to try at next rehearsals other than "don't try".
You are not wrong, it is certain people deliberately misinterpreting an otherwise established expression, to further their opinion about bass not supposed to being heard in any music, regardless of musical context.
I suspect the same people who would be happy with a 2 string 10 fret bass.
If no one is heard in the mix and blend in perfectly you will end up with a porridge of indifferent noise, which only purpose is filling out the sonic holes in between vocals.
Not something I personally would categorize as music.
Last edited:
- Apr 18, 2008
- 16,011
- 1
- 31,719
- Disclosures
- I'm highly opinionated and extremely self-assured
That’s a bit insulting.
What you don’t seem to understand is that it’s about the ensemble sounding cohesive, and not sounding like a bunch of individual people playing instruments.
Listen to any classical music and you can clearly hear the different instrument groups.
The difference here I assume is that OP will be the only one playing bass in his "ensemble".
I'll let you know I have done plenty of "producing" and mixing.
Of course a mix needs to be balanced, unless it doesn't, but I don't think OP is suggesting otherwise anywhere.
Last edited:
- Apr 18, 2008
- 16,011
- 1
- 31,719
- Disclosures
- I'm highly opinionated and extremely self-assured
None of which are constantly trying to “cut through the mix”. Yes, there are times when a certain section gets the spotlight, according to the score. But there are more times when the composer’s intent, and the conductor’s imperative, is that the musicians play appropriately as an ensemble.
- Apr 18, 2008
- 16,011
- 1
- 31,719
- Disclosures
- I'm highly opinionated and extremely self-assured
Okay professor, if we’re “deliberately misinterpreting” something, perhaps you could correct our faulty perceptions by clearly defining exactly what we’re all misinterpreting?
This is what I was going to say. What sounds good in a mix is typically not what I’d consider “great” tone.
"clearly audible in the mix" seems to be the OP's goal from what I have read
however folks want to argue otherwise
Speaking as a veteran of gigs and recording sessions
I think the 2 most important ideas so far put forth so far are
For what I have done ( Swing, Yacht rock, Caribbean, Indie rock ) Boosting 350-500 hz has usually served me well.
Lately I jam with more straight ahead rock / punk guys where ~1000 Hz serves well
(Often "boosting" is in reality cutting the other Frequencies to create a notch for yourself)
If these guitarists are not thinking about the mix you ought to try to nudge them to do so.
The Indie band I was in, the guitarists had discussions about who should play what kind of guitar
If one guy brought a double humbucker Gibson shaped object, the other reached for a single coil strat or tele style.
If one guy had a huge pedal board the other tended to just go straight into the amp
They both knew it was important to have distinct guitar sounds.
Maybe ask the band to consider the Idea of frequency slotting
You don't have to zero out the non-assigned frequencies, just plan each instrument having its favored range, which others are to respect.
As I said earlier:
nothing ruins a mix like an amateur trying to recreate their bedroom tone
however folks want to argue otherwise
Speaking as a veteran of gigs and recording sessions
I think the 2 most important ideas so far put forth so far are
- The best bass (or any instrument) sound for a mix is rarely the best solo sound
- The mix needs the whole band to consciously participate
For what I have done ( Swing, Yacht rock, Caribbean, Indie rock ) Boosting 350-500 hz has usually served me well.
Lately I jam with more straight ahead rock / punk guys where ~1000 Hz serves well
(Often "boosting" is in reality cutting the other Frequencies to create a notch for yourself)
If these guitarists are not thinking about the mix you ought to try to nudge them to do so.
The Indie band I was in, the guitarists had discussions about who should play what kind of guitar
If one guy brought a double humbucker Gibson shaped object, the other reached for a single coil strat or tele style.
If one guy had a huge pedal board the other tended to just go straight into the amp
They both knew it was important to have distinct guitar sounds.
Maybe ask the band to consider the Idea of frequency slotting
You don't have to zero out the non-assigned frequencies, just plan each instrument having its favored range, which others are to respect.
As I said earlier:
nothing ruins a mix like an amateur trying to recreate their bedroom tone
