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Zoom B3 As Preamp Part 2

#61
ticol07 said:
So I'll try with my PA speakers set on the floor :)
I made a try once but with the speakers raised and it wasn't very bassy.

I didn't buy the zoom B3 at first for its sims but most for all the other effects.
Today, I finally only use it for the drives and sometimes the sims... It's funny how I changed my mind !

But I still have some problems to deal with the cab sims.
I am not able to find the frequencies to correct on my bg250 to use the cab sims on full.
Without the cab sims, even if I find the amp sims good sounding I feel the lack of high cut provided my most of the cab sims (sounds better for the drived tones, I find).

And the other thing which is really surprising to me is how scooped the cab sims are. So I guess I'm psychologically (good word ?) afraid by these mid scoops (stupid, isn't it ?).

So, Charlie, before, you were saying never using the cab sims with bass cabs. Now, you changed your mind.
How do you correct your tone to achieve good results ?
I know every amp and bass cab has his own tone.
But I know the bg250 preamp tone to be very flat. The cab... almost flat but not completly... but I'm not able to find the good correction... Maybe I should have ordered new ears for christmas :)
Click to expand...

After the first month or two with the B3, I grew very attached to the cabinet sims, especially for supplying FOH DI.

With this said, even though I now compromise slightly with my on-stage tone by using the cabinet sims through tweeter-loaded bass cabinets, I believe I soon will be losing the cabinets and power amp to powered monitors, as IMHO they are the best match for the amp/cabinet modeling and are very easy to transport.

I find that I am now enjoying the tonal experience more as an art rather than a science. Once one finds a comfortable place using the B3 a preamp, I would simply suggest that one enjoy the ride, obsess less, and play great bass! :-)

Cheers!
 
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#62
ticol07 said:
So I'll try with my PA speakers set on the floor :)
I made a try once but with the speakers raised and it wasn't very bassy.

I didn't buy the zoom B3 at first for its sims but most for all the other effects.
Today, I finally only use it for the drives and sometimes the sims... It's funny how I changed my mind !

But I still have some problems to deal with the cab sims.
I am not able to find the frequencies to correct on my bg250 to use the cab sims on full.
Without the cab sims, even if I find the amp sims good sounding I feel the lack of high cut provided my most of the cab sims (sounds better for the drived tones, I find).

And the other thing which is really surprising to me is how scooped the cab sims are. So I guess I'm psychologically (good word ?) afraid by these mid scoops (stupid, isn't it ?).

So, Charlie, before, you were saying never using the cab sims with bass cabs. Now, you changed your mind.
How do you correct your tone to achieve good results ?
I know every amp and bass cab has his own tone.
But I know the bg250 preamp tone to be very flat. The cab... almost flat but not completly... but I'm not able to find the good correction... Maybe I should have ordered new ears for christmas :)
Click to expand...


Ask and you shall receive.

I did this and it worked great.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/tc-electronic-bg250-club-part-2-a-958571/index28.html#post15180116

Please let me know your results.

DS
 
#63
CharlieC said:
I find that I am now enjoying the tonal experience more as an art rather than a science. Once one finds a comfortable place using the B3 a preamp, I would simply suggest that one enjoy the ride, obsess less, and play great bass! :-)

Cheers!
Click to expand...

You're so right. I tend to become a tone freak :hmm:
It's just the too many possibilities offered by too much options that make me think too much.

dsamudio said:
Ask and you shall receive.

I did this and it worked great.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/tc-electronic-bg250-club-part-2-a-958571/index28.html#post15180116

Please let me know your results.

DS
Click to expand...

Ha ha, it's fun because it points to one of my own postings. I guess I'm thinking too much about this fact !
I forgot that. I'll retry and give you an answer :)
 
#64
Hi to All,
thanks for this helpful postings. Bought a Zoom B3 yesterday. I'm playing double- and E-Bass in a Rockabilly, Country & Blues Band. There was a couple of reasons why i decided for that device:

- Full parametric EQ using as a notch filte/feedback destroyer for the double bass
- "Intelligent" DI Box with amps and cabinet simulations
- Ability to store patches and recall them (different sounds for double bass and E-Bass)
- Amps and Cabs simulation feeding the FOH/PA Equipment with an better sound
- Usage of Effects (Compressor, etc.) for the double bass

I know, that finding the right sound is very hard as everyone has a different perception of what is the optimal sound. I personally spent a lot of time in finding my optimal sound. And a sound depends on many things and on each peace of the chain: The instrument itself, the strings, the pickups, preamps, amps, cabs, etc. and on the double bass it is even more complex: type of bass, positioning of the bridge, positioning of the sound post, the type of your playing stile (pizicato, slap, bow).... etc. So my main intention was not changing my sound it was having a device where i can feed my amp and the PA with one device and the ability to switch between different settings for the different instruments (E- /A- Bass) and in addition having a full parametric EQ for the feedback problem.

If the device could also improve my sound than its wonderful!
Will have my first live gig this friday. Will keep you updated.

cheers, Richy
 
#65
Hope you'll have a sucessfull gig !

On my side, I found a powered speaker and gave it a try with the B3 loaded with amp and cab sim at 100% -> great results.
I don"t why but I didn't think of putting this speaker on the floor before. Last time I tried I had such a poor low end...
So, my today's try, with the speaker on the floor gave me a very big fat sound. I liked it !!
And it's a very cheap one, not very powerful. I'll try soon with better ones.

This full range speaker let me compare the sound with the bg250 and I think I understand better how to set it to use it with the cab sims too.
It's like the bg250 cab increases mids around 1 kHz, and maybe a little bit around 200 Hz (I'm not sure). However, by reducing them on the B3 I obtain some better results with my cab sims.

What kind of power can be necessary on these kind of power speakers to have something that sound like a 200 / 300 W bass rig ?
I often read that full range speakers need a lot more of power, but is it still true when you use cab sims, and so cut the lowest frequencies (they're the ones who need the most of power, no ?).
 
#66
ticol07 said:
... On my side, I found a powered speaker and gave it a try with the B3 loaded with amp and cab sim at 100% -> great results.
I don"t why but I didn't think of putting this speaker on the floor before. Last time I tried I had such a poor low end...
So, my today's try, with the speaker on the floor gave me a very big fat sound. I liked it !!
And it's a very cheap one, not very powerful. I'll try soon with better ones.

This full range speaker let me compare the sound with the bg250 and I think I understand better how to set it to use it with the cab sims too.
It's like the bg250 cab increases mids around 1 kHz, and maybe a little bit around 200 Hz (I'm not sure). However, by reducing them on the B3 I obtain some better results with my cab sims...
Click to expand...

Having a "full-range" reference point for the B3 will soon spoil your ear for all other means of amplification (as it has for me.)

Treat your DSP to the high-definition it was intended for and it will expose new tonal horizons and result in more enjoyment.

Cheers!
 
#69
M Sharp said:
When I adjust a setting for an effect, such as a distortion pedal, do those settings change in all the patches that include that distortion pedal?
Click to expand...

In fact each patch memorises all the pedals settings for this patch only : for example if you set in a patch the big muff in a way and finally decide you prefer to use the BB preamp, when you come back to the Big Muff in this patch, your settings are the one you set before.
And when you move to another patch, the settings are new.
So, very easy to use.

CharlieC said:
Having a "full-range" reference point for the B3 will soon spoil your ear for all other means of amplification (as it has for me.)

Treat your DSP to the high-definition it was intended for and it will expose new tonal horizons and result in more enjoyment.

Cheers!
Click to expand...

I think I will be soon totally convinced :)
But as I'm totally new with the full range speaker use for bass, I don't know where to begin my search to make some tries.
The most simple way seems to be the active speakers. The volume control is not easy access but once you set it for a gig you don't touch it every 5 minutes. But are these speakers powerfull enough ?
And what about things like the Fearfull ? What their big difference with the classic fullrange speakers ?

By the way, what does DSP means ?

And just to know , Charlie, I saw your SVT/ BB preamp setting. Everything is flat. And I know you're in the same kind of playing as me (P bass, pick, rock stuffs) : you still have a good definition with these settings ? On it's own it sounds very fat, but not very clear. I would be tempted to add some 800Hz and maybe boost a bit the treble on the SVT model.
But maybe we're not after the exact same tone.
 
#70
ticol07 said:
And just to know , Charlie, I saw your SVT/ BB preamp setting. Everything is flat. And I know you're in the same kind of playing as me (P bass, pick, rock stuffs) : you still have a good definition with these settings ? On it's own it sounds very fat, but not very clear. I would be tempted to add some 800Hz and maybe boost a bit the treble on the SVT model.
But maybe we're not after the exact same tone.
Click to expand...

I'm not Charlie, but I'll respond anyway! I find that setting works great with a pick - plenty of definition. My modified fingerstyle version does have some added treble.
 
#71
fEarful cabs have the capacity to reproduce more/deeper bass than a typical full range speaker. Think of it as headroom for the low end. I love my fEarful but I've also had good results from a Behringer active PA cab. The fEarful would definitely win in a volume war, given enough wattage, but the Behringer was convenient at the time.
 
#72
ticol07 said:
... By the way, what does DSP means ?

And just to know , Charlie, I saw your SVT/ BB preamp setting. Everything is flat. And I know you're in the same kind of playing as me (P bass, pick, rock stuffs) : you still have a good definition with these settings ? On it's own it sounds very fat, but not very clear. I would be tempted to add some 800Hz and maybe boost a bit the treble on the SVT model.
But maybe we're not after the exact same tone.
Click to expand...

DSP = Digital Signal Processing

My patch's flat SVT EQ setting was intended for full-range repro and works great when pushing volumes required to cut-over a live drummer. The louder, the less EQ is needed and the cab sim's built-in scoop works for me and my pick attack. Notice however, that I have the Mid_Freq conveniently set to 800 Hz just in case :D

Like anything else, YMMV, but feel free to tweak the EQ as necessary for your ear, equipment, and tone goals.

Cheers!
 
#73
SoVeryTired said:
I'm not Charlie, but I'll respond anyway! I find that setting works great with a pick - plenty of definition. My modified fingerstyle version does have some added treble.
Click to expand...

CharlieC said:
DSP = Digital Signal Processing

My patch's flat SVT EQ setting was intended for full-range repro and works great when pushing volumes required to cut-over a live drummer. The louder, the less EQ is needed and the cab sim's built-in scoop works for me and my pick attack. Notice however, that I have the Mid_Freq conveniently set to 800 Hz just in case :D

Like anything else, YMMV, but feel free to tweak the EQ as necessary for your ear, equipment, and tone goals.

Cheers!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the replies.
I'll keep the 800hz at hand too. I like it when I need it :)
And my plan for test on bigger full range cab has been changed a bit. I'll have to wait a few weeks... grrrrr

And for the finger style, generally I boost some highs and cut a bit at 80Hz. I did a try with the SVT sim and the tone was really punchy !

Swift713 said:
fEarful cabs have the capacity to reproduce more/deeper bass than a typical full range speaker. Think of it as headroom for the low end. I love my fEarful but I've also had good results from a Behringer active PA cab. The fEarful would definitely win in a volume war, given enough wattage, but the Behringer was convenient at the time.
Click to expand...

OK, I understand. And to know that Behringer can achieve good results is interesting since it means that there are many good possibilities from cheap to less cheap.

You built your Fearfull or bought it ?
I'm more and more thinking in the DIY. I like the concept, even if I'm not sure to have the perfect hands to do that well :)
 
#75
Started a thread on the noise thing yesterday, what are you using for power? Any other effects? Order of the effects? I get this "whirring /cliccking" sound at high volumes, it was my mxr brick, giving it its own wall wart cut the noise WAY down, some of the patches are still a little noisy, but that's what happens when 1,000 $ worth of pedals only costs 2 and change
 
#78
boomboom4200 said:
Anyone have realworld battery life time for the B3? I know what the manual says, but anyone got any real experience using batteries with the unit? My mxr brick is fine with the rest of my effects, but hook that thing to the zoom and its crazy noisy??
Click to expand...
I've been getting about 8-10 hours of battery life using Duracells. Can't help ya with the noise issue.
 
#79
Thanks NYC, the batteries will solve the noise issues, we only play a couple few times a month and im trying to cut down on wires everywhere, and using the mxr brick with the B3 is outta the question (should have spent the extra $ and went with the voodoo labs, its got isolated circuits) and besides batteries, a separate wall wart is what keeps the B3 noisless for me. So it's batteries until I can afford the voodoo labs, thanks y'all :thumbup:
 
#80
boomboom4200 said:
Thanks NYC, the batteries will solve the noise issues, we only play a couple few times a month and im trying to cut down on wires everywhere, and using the mxr brick with the B3 is outta the question (should have spent the extra $ and went with the voodoo labs, its got isolated circuits) and besides batteries, a separate wall wart is what keeps the B3 noisless for me. So it's batteries until I can afford the voodoo labs, thanks y'all :thumbup:
Click to expand...
A great choice for rechargeable would be Eneloop Batteries and a La Crosse BC700 Charger. Great stuff!
 

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