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Zoom B3 As Preamp Part 2

Just bumping one of my favorite topics of TB!

And while I'm here: yesterday I decided to try the Edit and Share software and it's actually pretty cool! The visuals are pleasant and makes everything faster :) However, I got a LOT of noise. I didn't have another bass and cable with me to try but I wonder if it had anything to do with the proximity to the laptop? The B3 is connected through USB so it can't be far from the PC. The B3 output had headphones connected. Should I move the bass and B3 as far as possible from the PC to avoid interference? Although that makes it hard to work with the software.

Do you have a power adaptor plugged in to power the laptop? If yes, try switching that off to see if that gets rid of the noise. My B1Xon is super noisy with the laptop power adaptor on but the noise disappears completely when I turn it off. Good luck!
 
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I think I had everything very close, which cause the noise.

On another topic: if I split the signal from my bass, connect one to the amp Input directly, and feed the other to the ZoomB3 going through the FX Loop. Will it work (to get 2 simultaneously amplified signals)?
 
Given that this whole discussion started over 2 and a half years (and 90+ Talkbass pages) ago, I'm a little late to the party, but I can now stand up and admit that I am a Zoom B3 convert. My journey started over a year ago when I started playing regularly in local clubs that required a bit beefier of a rock rig than my original combos. On the advice of a fellow bass-playing friend, who's bass tone I REALLY liked, I began acquiring new gear. It started with moving from a combo amp to a separate preamp/power amp configuration driving standalone full-range speakers.

The power amp was a great local Craigslist find - a QSC GX5 dual-channel PA amp (500 watts/channel). I wanted either a QSC or Crown amp as I've had some experience with them in PA's and they provide excellent clean full-range power.

Based on a lot of reading on other Talkbass pages, I took a shot at trying fEARful speakers and found a few for sale here. My rock rig's tone is now accurately (and loudly) recreated by 2 fEARful cabs (a 15/6 and a 15sub).

Finding the right pre-amp proved to be more problematic. I tried a few BBE pre-amps (BMax and 383) a Peavey Maxbass (all were good, but didn't give me everything I wanted) before settling on an Ashdown ABM RPM unit (my combos were Ashdowns - which I also really liked) - which along with a 7-band EQ, gave me tube pre-amp grit and and a subharmonic generator.

Still, I found that dialing in "my sound" was a bit difficult, especially when switching basses. Going back to the discussion I originally had with my bass-playing friend, I noticed his other recommendation (aside from a PA amplifier and full-range bass speakers) was the use of a Zoom B3 (which he told me he mainly used with the SVT patch). I was a little skeptical about simulation, but figured if Geddy Lee can use it to get a lot of his live sound these days (aside - just saw them on the current tour in Boston - first and possibly last Rush show), it was worth a shot. So, a few months back, I started searching Talkbass for posts on the B3 and of course came across this thread - the prospect of using the B3 as my preamp definitely looked promising, and when I finally snagged one of Ebay, I set it up per all of CharlieC's initial recommendations, and tried out a number of amp sims and effects. After setting up a few custom patches, I tried it out at a recent gig, and made myself (and probably everyone in the room) a believer!

At the moment, I'm finding a lot of joy out of the SVT sim as well (switching in the ParaEQ for certain songs), although I'm very interested in exploring some of the other sims (especially the GKrueger and B-Man amps, plus the BassDrive, and BassBB preamps). I'm also looking forward to being able to throw in the occasional distortion, wah-wah, sub-octave, or envelope filtering on a few songs, and playing around with other effects. Having a built-in tuner that mutes the signal to the amp, a computer interface, headphone jack, and XLR out for the PA (among other features that I might not ever use)...well that's just a bonus. :)

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread (especially CharlieC who got it all started and did so much of the groundwork for the rest of us) - maybe I'll have some future experiences to share later (or patch ideas). Rock on!

John
 
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Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread (especially CharlieC who got it all started and did so much of the groundwork for the rest of us) - maybe I'll have some future experiences to share later (or patch ideas).

But first...a Question!!

Someone asked about using a USB port to power their Zoom. I've got a few old iPod chargers and I was thinking maybe I could use one of them as a back-up power source should something happen to my power adapter. I know - 4 AA batteries would work too, but since these chargers are just collecting dust, I thought maybe they'd work. I see that Andreas_flf had some negative experiences which he attributed to using USB power (forcing him to do a factory reset), but I haven't seen any other feedback in that regard.

So...are there other folks out there regularly powering their B3's with USB power (either via a computer connection or USB charger like an iPod charger), and have you experienced any issues?

John
 
Given that this whole discussion started over 2 and a half years (and 90+ Talkbass pages) ago, I'm a little late to the party, but I can now stand up and admit that I am a Zoom B3 convert. My journey started over a year ago when I started playing regularly in local clubs that required a bit beefier of a rock rig than my original combos. On the advice of a fellow bass-playing friend, who's bass tone I REALLY liked, I began acquiring new gear. It started with moving from a combo amp to a separate preamp/power amp configuration driving standalone full-range speakers.

The power amp was a great local Craigslist find - a QSC GX5 dual-channel PA amp (500 watts/channel). I wanted either a QSC or Crown amp as I've had some experience with them in PA's and they provide excellent clean full-range power.

Based on a lot of reading on other Talkbass pages, I took a shot at trying fEARful speakers and found a few for sale here. My rock rig's tone is now accurately (and loudly) recreated by 2 fEARful cabs (a 15/6 and a 15sub).

Finding the right pre-amp proved to be more problematic. I tried a few BBE pre-amps (BMax and 383) a Peavey Maxbass (all were good, but didn't give me everything I wanted) before settling on an Ashdown ABM RPM unit (my combos were Ashdowns - which I also really liked) - which along with a 7-band EQ, gave me tube pre-amp grit and and a subharmonic generator.

Still, I found that dialing in "my sound" was a bit difficult, especially when switching basses. Going back to the discussion I originally had with my bass-playing friend, I noticed his other recommendation (aside from a PA amplifier and full-range bass speakers) was the use of a Zoom B3 (which he told me he mainly used with the SVT patch). I was a little skeptical about simulation, but figured if Geddy Lee can use it to get a lot of his live sound these days (aside - just saw them on the current tour in Boston - first and possibly last Rush show), it was worth a shot. So, a few months back, I started searching Talkbass for posts on the B3 and of course came across this thread - the prospect of using the B3 as my preamp definitely looked promising, and when I finally snagged one of Ebay, I set it up per all of CharlieC's initial recommendations, and tried out a number of amp sims and effects. After setting up a few custom patches, I tried it out at a recent gig, and made myself (and probably everyone in the room) a believer!

At the moment, I'm finding a lot of joy out of the SVT sim as well (switching in the ParaEQ for certain songs), although I'm very interested in exploring some of the other sims (especially the GKrueger and B-Man amps, plus the BassDrive, and BassBB preamps). I'm also looking forward to being able to throw in the occasional distortion, wah-wah, sub-octave, or envelope filtering on a few songs, and playing around with other effects. Having a built-in tuner that mutes the signal to the amp, a computer interface, headphone jack, and XLR out for the PA (among other features that I might not ever use)...well that's just a bonus. :)

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread (especially CharlieC who got it all started and did so much of the groundwork for the rest of us) - maybe I'll have some future experiences to share later (or patch ideas). Rock on!

John

Better late than never, John, welcome!

Good going on the full-range cabinets as well, especially the Greenboy designs.

Cheers!
 
In a series loop the return signal takes other what comes from the preamp.
In a parallel loop they are mixed.

I still feel lost. Could you, please, elaborate a bit further or link me to useful readings? Thanks.

But first...a Question!!

Someone asked about using a USB port to power their Zoom. I've got a few old iPod chargers and I was thinking maybe I could use one of them as a back-up power source should something happen to my power adapter. I know - 4 AA batteries would work too, but since these chargers are just collecting dust, I thought maybe they'd work. I see that Andreas_flf had some negative experiences which he attributed to using USB power (forcing him to do a factory reset), but I haven't seen any other feedback in that regard.

So...are there other folks out there regularly powering their B3's with USB power (either via a computer connection or USB charger like an iPod charger), and have you experienced any issues?

John

Whenever I'm using the PC I just connect through USB. Until now I haven't experienced any troubles.
 
Running into a volume issue...I don't really have any. The B3 is a part of a pedalboard, but it is last in the chain, so that should basically be a non issue. Running the B3 into a Rane DC24 and then into a Crown XLS1500. The volume persists even if I take the Rane out of the equation so it's not that. Power Amp is being run in Stereo Mode - 525w @ 4ohm per channel. Cab is a custom made 212 rated at 600w @ 4ohm.

B3 settings:
Golbal: 65
Total: 100
Patch: Max
Sim Level (when applicable): 0%

If I turn Global/Total up more I start clipping . Happens if I'm using a hot bass or not.

What the heck am I missing? Anyone want to help me troubleshoot?

I have just purchased a Crown XLS1500 and am having the same issue as you. My setup last night was bass=>Zoom B3=>Crown XLS1500=>Bergantino 1x12. Global is set at 70, total at 100 and balance at 100 and healthy patch levels too.

As the band got louder I had the Crown volume almost on full and still it was not enough. In bridged mode too with a bridge mono speakon cable. At the end of the first set I grabbed my Genz Benz Shuttle 9.2 and replaced the Crown with the Shuttle in the chain and back came the volume in spades!! With the master vol only at 9 O'clock on the Shuttle and the Zoom plugged into the effects send - so using the shuttle as a power amp only. Needless to say I did the rest of the gig with the Shuttle.

From what I've been reading it seems the Crown requires a lot of input to get full performance from it and maybe the Zoom doesn't have the level required to drive it properly.

I bought the Crown because I didn't want to always just use my Genz Benz heads as power amps only, but after last night's gig, I may got back to what's been working really well....
 
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I have just purchased a Crown XLS1500 and am having the same issue as you. My setup last night was bass=>Zoom B3=>Crown XLS1500=>Bergantino 1x12. Global is set at 70, total at 100 and balance at 100 and healthy patch levels too.

As the band got louder I had the Crown volume almost on full and still it was not enough. In bridged mode too with a bridge mono speakon cable. At the end of the first set I grabbed my Genz Benz Shuttle 9.2 and replaced the Crown with the Shuttle in the chain and back came the volume in spades!! With the master vol only at 9 O'clock on the Shuttle and the Zoom plugged into the effects send - so using the shuttle as a power amp only. Needless to say I did the rest of the gig with the Shuttle.

From what I've been reading it seems the Crown requires a lot of input to get full performance from it and maybe the Zoom doesn't have the level required to drive it properly.

I bought the Crown because I didn't want to always just use my Genz Benz heads as power amps only, but after last night's gig, I may got back to what's been working really well....
I've been using my GK amps like this for years. The great thing is if your multi-effect goes down you still have a real working bass amp just in case.
Take care,
Brent
 
I have just purchased a Crown XLS1500 and am having the same issue as you. My setup last night was bass=>Zoom B3=>Crown XLS1500=>Bergantino 1x12. Global is set at 70, total at 100 and balance at 100 and healthy patch levels too.

As the band got louder I had the Crown volume almost on full and still it was not enough. In bridged mode too with a bridge mono speakon cable. At the end of the first set I grabbed my Genz Benz Shuttle 9.2 and replaced the Crown with the Shuttle in the chain and back came the volume in spades!! With the master vol only at 9 O'clock on the Shuttle and the Zoom plugged into the effects send - so using the shuttle as a power amp only. Needless to say I did the rest of the gig with the Shuttle.

From what I've been reading it seems the Crown requires a lot of input to get full performance from it and maybe the Zoom doesn't have the level required to drive it properly.

I bought the Crown because I didn't want to always just use my Genz Benz heads as power amps only, but after last night's gig, I may got back to what's been working really well....

I can confirm that the B3 is more than capable of driving any of the Crown XLS DriveCore amps to full power and into clipping.

With a typical 8-ohm 1x12 connected, your XLS 1500 can deliver over 1000 watts vs. the Shuttle 9.2's 500 watts with the same load.

I suspect something else is working against you in the above case.

The most popular causes for this are:

1) Your bridge mono cable is wired incorrectly and/or the amp was not successfully placed into bridge mono mode.

2) Your B3 individual effect Levels are not hot enough, despite your GLOBAL, TOTAL and BAL levels.

Many helpful posts can be found within Part I of this thread regarding the first item above, but I believe #2 is the culprit for you.

I would raise GLOBAL from 70 to 100 and then it is time to focus on the 3 effect slots. Turn 2 of the 3 slots off, leaving either a single amp model or other preamp effect model on. You will then need to raise this effect's Level parameter significantly (~100) to give the signal the final push it needs to drive the XLS to full power.

Trust me, it works, and I also would advise caution when having 1000+ watts on-tap for a typical 1x12 cabinet.

Cheers!
 
Thanks CharlieC. It just seems odd to me that I can get so much more juice from the poweramp section of the Genz Benz heads. But perhaps I'm simply not giving the Crown enough input signal.

The patch I was using last night uses the Fliptop sim. The gain is set at 60 and the level is 108. Patch level is 100. My other patches are set so the bass sound is a similar volume patch to patch.

I'll have a go at raising the Global level. I did notice last night that only the signal LED was lighting up in the Crown, not the -20dB or the -10dB LEDs which supports your theory that the input signal was too low...
 
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Thanks CharlieC. It just seems odd to me that I can get so much more juice from the poweramp section of the Genz Benz heads. But perhaps I'm simply not giving the Crown enough input signal.

The patch I was using last night uses the Fliptop sim. The gain is set at 60 and the level is 108. Patch level is 100. My other patches are set so the bass sound is a similar volume patch to patch.

I'll have a go at raising the Global level. I did notice last night that only the signal LED was lighting up in the Crown, not the -20dB or the -10dB LEDs which supports your theory that the input signal was too low...

With no disrespect to the Shuttle, the Crown's input sensitivity is a pro-level 1.4 Vrms and the Shuttle's power amp section most likely is a lower, line-level number. Interestingly, the lower number in this case is considered high-sensitivity and the Crown's higher number is low-sensitivity.

When an input is highly-sensitive, it is easier for another device to push it. This is why the same B3 signal seems to go further in the Shuttle and much less so in the XLS. Although the B3 can indeed produce enough output to achieve the 1.4 Vrms, it's a stretch for the device to reach there as you have found.

IMHO, I believe using the Shuttle with your 1x12 is a better solution than the Crown as the Shuttle is smaller in physical size and its output power is nicely matched to the 1x12's handling power.

Cheers!
 
With no disrespect to the Shuttle, the Crown's input sensitivity is a pro-level 1.4 Vrms and the Shuttle's power amp section most likely is a lower, line-level number. Interestingly, the lower number in this case is considered high-sensitivity and the Crown's higher number is low-sensitivity.

When an input is highly-sensitive, it is easier for another device to push it. This is why the same B3 signal seems to go further in the Shuttle and much less so in the XLS. Although the B3 can indeed produce enough output to achieve the 1.4 Vrms, it's a stretch for the device to reach there as you have found.

IMHO, I believe using the Shuttle with your 1x12 is a better solution than the Crown as the Shuttle is smaller in physical size and its output power is nicely matched to the 1x12's handling power.

Cheers!

So today I set up the rig again with the Crown and raised the Global level to 100. It helped but it still fell short of what I get from the Shuttle. So I raised it to 120 (max) and you could hear the signal clipping or distorting :(

One thing I haven't tried is using one of my normal speakon cables and running the amp in stereo mode just to see whether or not the mono bridge speakon cable that came with the Crown is not working properly? Could a defective speakon cause a drop in signal or would you just lose the signal completely? I don't think it's the cable but it's the only thing I haven't tested...
 
So today I set up the rig again with the Crown and raised the Global level to 100. It helped but it still fell short of what I get from the Shuttle. So I raised it to 120 (max) and you could hear the signal clipping or distorting :(

One thing I haven't tried is using one of my normal speakon cables and running the amp in stereo mode just to see whether or not the mono bridge speakon cable that came with the Crown is not working properly? Could a defective speakon cause a drop in signal or would you just lose the signal completely? I don't think it's the cable but it's the only thing I haven't tested...

Using just the B15 FlipTop model and the following settings, I am able to send my XLS into clipping with an ordinary passive P-Bass:

GLOBAL=100, TOTAL=100, BAL=100

Bass=0, Mid=0, Trebl=0, Gain=70, Level=120, Mix=100

^ Should you later boost EQ, you will need to reduce the Level down from 120 as to not induce unwanted signal distortion.

Important: With the B3, the CH1 attenuator on the XLS must be set full up to drive the XLS to full power.

You should notice all three green LEDs lighting on the front panel of the XLS, with the red clip LED lighting on the extreme playing transients.

Again, should you also achieve this with your equipment, you will be putting over 1000 watts into your 1x12 cabinet which is not a good idea.

Should you see the full LED illumination described above yet the output from the 1x12 seems lacking far below 1000 watts, then your bridge mono Speakon cable is not wired correctly on the amp side (+1/+2).

In the USA, none of the XLS DriveCore amps come with this specially wired Speakon cable, nor any other speaker cable for that matter.

At this time, I believe your CH1 input attenuator was not set to full, and perhaps further to that, your Speakon cable is not wired correctly.

I believe the above to be the case as there is no way the 500-watt power amp section in the Shuttle could trump the 1000 watts of the XLS.
 
Using just the B15 FlipTop model and the following settings, I am able to send my XLS into clipping with an ordinary passive P-Bass:

GLOBAL=100, TOTAL=100, BAL=100

Bass=0, Mid=0, Trebl=0, Gain=70, Level=120, Mix=100

^ Should you later boost EQ, you will need to reduce the Level down from 120 as to not induce unwanted signal distortion.

Important: With the B3, the CH1 attenuator on the XLS must be set full up to drive the XLS to full power.

You should notice all three green LEDs lighting on the front panel of the XLS, with the red clip LED lighting on the extreme playing transients.

Again, should you also achieve this with your equipment, you will be putting over 1000 watts into your 1x12 cabinet which is not a good idea.

Should you see the full LED illumination described above yet the output from the 1x12 seems lacking far below 1000 watts, then your bridge mono Speakon cable is not wired correctly on the amp side (+1/+2).

In the USA, none of the XLS DriveCore amps come with this specially wired Speakon cable, nor any other speaker cable for that matter.

At this time, I believe your CH1 input attenuator was not set to full, and perhaps further to that, your Speakon cable is not wired correctly.

I believe the above to be the case as there is no way the 500-watt power amp section in the Shuttle could trump the 1000 watts of the XLS.

Hi Charlie

I really appreciate your efforts in trouble-shooting this! :)

I didn't have the channel 1 attenuator set to full. I was using it like a master volume on my normal bass amp heads. So are you saying I should set the Crown attenuator to full and use the Global vol on the B3 to control the overall volume level? This would be a slight nuisance on a gig as I often change patches between songs. I would then need to remember to press the Global button again before starting the next song in case I need to adjust the volume during the song. Not a biggy but a bit more of a hassle than my usual setup with the GB head.

It could well be that the cable isn't wired correctly. Just took a look at a vid on youtube about wiring a bridge mono speakon cable for an Ampeg SVT-4 Pro so I now have an idea of how the speakon connector is assembled. But... for a standard speakon cable, how do I determine which wire goes to +1 and which wire goes to +2? In the aforementioned video the red wire is the tip on his speaker cable and therefore goes to +1 and the black wire is the sleeve and goes to +2. Is there a standard colour scheme for speakon cables?

Edit - I just took the cable apart and it is wired as follows:

Amp end: red wire to +1, blue wire to +2

Cab end: red wire to +1, blue wire to -1

Assuming the red wire is positive and the blue wire is negative, the cable is wired correctly isn't it?
 
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