Zoom B3 As Preamp Part 2

[Juan Lauda]

Revisiting this thread after a while away from it. CharlieC, I can't thank you enough for the knowledge you've shared here over the last few years. It's been a constant source of inspiration, and only now have I had the chance to put it to the test.

I recently bought a used QSC PL236 with the initial idea of using it to drive the preamp stage of my TC RH450. I've been a huge fan of the RH450's preamp, but not so fond of the way the 'Active Power Management' tends to cut the transients and general meaty goodness out of the signal. Running it through the QSC sounds so much cleaner and fuller... but pulling it out altogether and using the B3 as the preamp has opened up a whole new world of possibilities! I'm driving one channel in unbridged mode into a Bergantino CN212. One could only imagine what running a second CN212 through the other channel would sound like!

I bought the B3 when it first hit our shores. Previously, running the B3 through the RH450 on stage tended to muddy the signal even more, and I'd stopped using it. Now I'm back in love with the little red box and the multitude of great sounds at my fingertips. I'll always have the RH450 in my bag as a backup unit, but I'm sure I've found my dream setup here. I'm going back through the entire part 1 of this chain to get my preset levels working just right: I've got the Global level up to about 100/120 and it sends plenty of juice to the QSC. Maxgroover, I know we live pretty close to each other, so it might be interesting to compare and contrast some time.

 

[franksapene]

Hi guys, I got a zoom B3 and want to record my bass through the B3 directly into a digital recorder (zoom r8), because I want to get a better tone using amp modelers. My question is: what output should I use from the b3 to the digital recorder, the xrl or the 1/4 cable?

The extra mile in your answer is: what is the difference between both considering it is going directly to a digital recorder

Thanks!! Frank

 

[CharlieC]

Hi guys, I got a zoom B3 and want to record my bass through the B3 directly into a digital recorder (zoom r8), because I want to get a better tone using amp modelers. My question is: what output should I use from the b3 to the digital recorder, the xrl or the 1/4 cable?

The extra mile in your answer is: what is the difference between both considering it is going directly to a digital recorder

Thanks!! Frank

At modest cable lengths, the difference between XLR and 1/4" is non-existent to negligible.

Cheers!

 

[franksapene]

At modest cable lengths, the difference between XLR and 1/4" is non-existent to negligible.

Cheers!

Thanks Charles, let's say 10 feet cable. Is it moderate?

Gracias, Frank

 

[CharlieC]

Thanks Charles, let's say 10 feet cable. Is it moderate?

Gracias, Frank

Yes, no problem.

 

[[email protected]]

CharlieC .........thanks for sharing all your knowledge with us all .
I had a B3 a couple of years ago , and got rid of it because I found that it seemed more of a toy ( pre sets ) than a usefull piece of gigging kit .
Now I have more time on my hands ( retired ) I have been reading this forum and the previous , and it had made me purchase a used B3 .
Just put your settings in for the SVT .............................WOW ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Did not sound anything like this when I had one previosly .
I have a EA iAmp800 , and feed it into the effect return , what a sound .
One question...............does anyone have a decent Chorus setting to use with this ?
Pete

 

[jimfist]

With this unit in the chain, I can now feed the Crown with plenty of signal with my B3 global vol set at 70. I've found the para mids on the BBE pretty handy for dialing out boominess if required too. And the BBE adds less than 7lb to the rig so the Crown and BBE in the 4RU case is still pretty light And of course, if the B3 stops working, I can keep playing with the Crown and BBE!

Interesting that you added the BBE to your rig. I pretty much came to the same conclusion after using amp modelers with power amps into full range speakers. The problem has always been one where I need to tone shape and adjust volume on stage without re-setting anything from the modeler (B3) feeding the FOH system.

Since I'm always looking for the smallest, most flexible rig that can deliver plenty of sound, I wound up scoring a used Ibanez Promethean P300H micro head (this is a shockingly good little piece of gear IMHO). This powers my stage speakers (one or two full range coaxial 15" speakers, depending on volume needed) and gives me the ability to dial in my stage sound and volume as needed, especially when we aren't afforded a sound check. I highly recommend that bassists have some sort of access to tone-shaping for their stage rig. It can save a lot of headache dialing out troublesome EQ.

I've been using this rig for over a year now (B3 -> Promethean -> speakers) and I have to say that it is a great sounding compact setup. To complete the theme of going all-in with small gear, I've also been gigging the Ibanez Mikro bass. I've had quite a few house sound mixers come up to me after a gig and grill me about my gear setup. Evidently, they've had their share of bassists with very pricey rigs come in and not sound nearly as good and punchy.

Funny thing is that the total cost of my full rig (Mikro bass, Promethean head, factory re-stock B3, with two 15" Seismic coaxial cabinets) is about $900. I can afford to gig pretty much anything I want to, and I have plenty of cork-sniffer gear that I keep at home away from the riff-raff. I just get a kick out of getting the job done well on the cheap, and showing that you don't need to spend a ton to get impressive results. I don't give a damn if other players look at me sideways for having such a relatively "ghetto" rig. IMHO, this rig performs as well as any live rig I've ever used in terms of tonal (genre) flexibility and practical output volume...and it easily fits in the back of my subcompact car in two trips. Heck, when there is a great house PA system, I can gig with just the bass, B3 and an accessory bag. I love it!

 

[jwilson67]

Hey everyone - I'll be buying a B3 within the next couple of days. Has anybody happened to work out a patch for or would there be any ideas for the trippy bass sound to "What You Need" by INXS?

 

[andreas_flf]

If you don't need the smaller size of the MS-60B very very urgently, you might want to reconsider your plan. You not just loosing drum loops, but also head phone capability, DI Out, about 30% of effect models, easier editing, seperate stomp box enable/disable , etc. Not an option for me at least.

I fully concur. I own both, but would not want to give away my B3s never ever. ;-)

 

[cvsurg]

Hey everyone - I'll be buying a B3 within the next couple of days. Has anybody happened to work out a patch for or would there be any ideas for the trippy bass sound to "What You Need" by INXS?

There's a thread that deals more directly with patch ideas/creation that may have what you're looking for- Zoom b3 patch Ideas | TalkBass.com Lots of good stuff to be had, though I'm not sure about the INXS one...

 

[Keithchr]

Hi Guys,

I have owned a B3 for two weeks and spent most of that time reading this forum and fiddling with it at home. Now I am going live with it on Saturday night in a medium sized pub!

I have chosen the following set up (pop covers band): Jazz Bass>B3>Markbass 2x10 combo.
I am not using the effects loop on the Markbass.....going straight into the front via 1/4" cable.

I have set only one patch - The Hartke amp sim (cab mix at zero) with The ZNR and the 160 comp.

Settings are: Markbass EQ is flat - Jazz Bass on active but EQ flat - Hartke: default settings (no cab) - ZNR: Th/hold 15, gtrin, level 100 - Comp 160: Th/Hold -20, Ratio 3, Gain 6,
Knee soft, Level 80.

Total and global are set to 100 on B3.

I have 2 questions:
Which is the best order to have these in the patch? ZNR then comp then amp sim, or should the comp go after the amp sim?

Are the settings for the 160 suitable for a pop covers band? I am not looking for any radical sound, just a smooth even tone (finger style) which also keeps the high register stuff audible.

I would like to thank all those who have contributed to this thread, especially CharlieC. Without all your help and information I would have despaired
of ever getting this thing onto the road.

Cheers

 

[CharlieC]

Hi Guys,

I have owned a B3 for two weeks and spent most of that time reading this forum and fiddling with it at home. Now I am going live with it on Saturday night in a medium sized pub!

I have chosen the following set up (pop covers band): Jazz Bass>B3>Markbass 2x10 combo.
I am not using the effects loop on the Markbass.....going straight into the front via 1/4" cable.

I have set only one patch - The Hartke amp sim (cab mix at zero) with The ZNR and the 160 comp.

Settings are: Markbass EQ is flat - Jazz Bass on active but EQ flat - Hartke: default settings (no cab) - ZNR: Th/hold 15, gtrin, level 100 - Comp 160: Th/Hold -20, Ratio 3, Gain 6,
Knee soft, Level 80.

Total and global are set to 100 on B3.

I have 2 questions:
Which is the best order to have these in the patch? ZNR then comp then amp sim, or should the comp go after the amp sim?

Are the settings for the 160 suitable for a pop covers band? I am not looking for any radical sound, just a smooth even tone (finger style) which also keeps the high register stuff audible.

I would like to thank all those who have contributed to this thread, especially CharlieC. Without all your help and information I would have despaired
of ever getting this thing onto the road.

Cheers

1. I would go ZNR --> Comp --> AmpSim

2. Sure, if it sounds good to you then that's all that matters

Cheers!

 

[ticol07]

The ZNR is best at the first place I think, then the compressor and the amp sim at the end.
The compressor will act on your pure bass tone, then you eq as you want with amp sim and your Markbass combo.
If you put the compressor at the end it will react differently depending on how you eq the amp sim. For example if you boost the bass it will increase the signal going to the compressor and so the compressor will pump harder.
But it's a matter of taste, as equalisation. There's no "one rule for all".

Just be aware that some of the default settings can sound appealing at low volume when playing at home, but a bit boomy at higher volumes, so be prepared to make some adjustments on the Hartke amps sim and/or on your Markbass when you'll be with your band in the room you'll play.
You often need more mids and highs than you would think in a band context.

I don't remember the default setting of the 160 compressor, but you have to set it regarding what you want to hear, and how hard you play.
You may want it subtle or heavy. The only way to know is to try and listen when you play with your band.
Basically if you set it heavy you'll have the same volume wether you hit hard or sofltly your strings which may be nice or not to your ears.
Your actual settings seem to be more on a soft effect side. Light compression.

This is only what I think, not the truth. Other may have different opinions

 

[ticol07]

Ah I just see that Charlie C was faster than me to reply
And more efficient (I talk too much... I know it )

 

[jwilson67]

After some experimentation with the B3 I am now running it into the stereo inputs in the back of my Ashdown ABM500 head and bypassing it's preamp completely. The head has an incredible power amp in it so it is a perfect marriage. I'm still debating whether to use the DI out from from the Zoom or the Ashdown. The Ashdown seems a bit more controllable.

 

[jwilson67]

I see now that the Boss ME-20B I was using before I bought individual effects had soured my multi effects experience. The B3 just absolutely is in a different league sonically.

 

[Keithchr]

Thanks for your help guys...

@jwilson67 I would be very interested to hear about your experience with the ME-20B and which aspects of it that you didn't like?

 

[jwilson67]

Thanks for your help guys...

@jwilson67 I would be very interested to hear about your experience with the ME-20B and which aspects of it that you didn't like?

@Keithchr - I don't know how to describe it really but the best thing I can think of is that is wasn't a very rich sounding effect unit. I guess "soured" was a strong word to use but it sounded artificial to me. I was able to improve it by throwing a Hartke Bass Attack preamp/DI after it but it still really didn't do it for me. One of the biggest things I didn't like about it was the compressor so my next purchase was and MXR M87. Now the ME-20B was between that and the Hartke. I then said to myself all I really need is some dirt and chorus so I traded in the Boss to get individual pedals. Long story short I couldn't find either of those I was looking for in individual pedals. After reading the threads about the B3 I began to entertain the idea of the multi effect again considering that I am in 2 different cover bands that play a huge swath of music. In one set I'll go from Twist and Shout to Who Can It Be Now and then play Starlight so the Zoom seemed like it might fit the bill.

Well...it did!! It's an amazing pedal as far as I'm concerned and my search is over. It is just my opinion that the B3 has a much deeper tone than the ME-20B. Today will be my first gig with it so I'll see how it fares out in the wild. I'll be using it together with a Line 6 M5 (primarily for the octaver) at this point but it too might go the way of the rest of my pedals.

Edit: The Bass Octave effect on the Line 6 is unbelievable. Truly one of the best I've ever played.

 

[jwilson67]

I'm a huge believer in DSP effects as far as bass is concerned. The amplifier models on the B3 when tweaked with other effects are pretty damned good and the dirt isn't nearly as bad as a lot of people are saying and are in fact very useable. I will just say this - the couple of individual fuzz/distortion pedals I tried in my effects chain would get lost in the mix once I got them in a live band situation. At rehearsal the other night I could clearly hear the dirt from the B3 when doing Starlight and Gold On The Ceiling and that was running it through my drummer's old Peavey TNT 150! Even he was saying "I've never heard that amp sound that good before!".

 

[OzzyGreg]

.

I will just say this - the couple of individual fuzz/distortion pedals I tried in my effects chain would get lost in the mix once I got them in a live band situation. At rehearsal the other night I could clearly hear the dirt from the B3 when doing Starlight and Gold On The Ceiling and that was running it through my drummer's old Peavey TNT 150!

Interesting!
I gave up on it years ago. Might be worth giving the Zoom dirt another try methinks.