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Zoom B3 As Preamp Part 2

FWIW, I have never been able to confirm that the Active/Passive switch on the B3 does anything at all. If it were to attenuate the signal, to make hot input levels more tame, then I sure can't hear the difference ;)
To be honest - neither can I. As amazing as the B3 is for $199 they had to cut some corners somewhere. I'm starting to see what some of the limitations might be but nothing at all that steers me away from what it's real strengths are.
 
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Is the XLR input of your board Line level or regular Mic one?The regular mic one is way too sensitive for line level devices.Look on your board manual to see what type of input you have.
I take with me every time this adaptor XLR-->TRS .Save me a lot of times when the board don't have line level XLR input.I use this in the TRS line ins of the board.Mission accomplished!!!

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The XLR input on our board is mic level, however it has a button to pad or attenuate the input signal. That is another option I am considering. I was able to get the input level down to a usable state by reducing all the level settings on my B3 relative to the one patch I tried, (25-30 or so) but what I really would like is to leave them at around 100 like what most others do, and be able to tweak it at home and at practice without radically changing the level setting each time. But, I'll do what I need to do to make it work because I really do like the tone I was able to get!
 
Signal levels on the B3's output jacks, both 1/4" and XLR, can range from as low as Mic level to off-the-charts +4 dBU line level.

The secret to effective overall output level management lies not only in use of the GLOBAL and TOTAL level values, but also in each individual effect's LEVEL values. They are all cumulative.

Cheers!
By dramatically reducing all the level values on my B3 (GLOBAL, TOTAL and each individual effect) to around 25-30 relative to the one patch I tried, I was able to tame it down to a usable output. I wish I leave them at around 100 like so many of you do, then be able to tweak it at home and at practice without radically changing the level setting each time. I'll have to experiment with our board and either find an alternative solution that allows me to do this or I'll reconfigure all of the patches I created to suit our board. I still have the pops and noise that reminds one of a problematic cable. This noise is not present without the B3 in the chain. My suspicion is that there is such noise not normally audible, but magnified greatly and now evident in my signal. This requires more investigation as well. Thank you Charlie and everybody, for your invaluable advice!
 
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FWIW, I have never been able to confirm that the Active/Passive switch on the B3 does anything at all. If it were to attenuate the signal, to make hot input levels more tame, then I sure can't hear the difference ;)

The input active/passive B3 switch is not like the input attenuators of some amps.This switch change the impedance of the input for correct connections between passive pickups and active circuits of basses or pedals.Other multis like the Line6 HD 500 have menus for that matter of input matching,very important for the correct pickup interaction.;)

This switch is very important when someone have his Whah or old type Fuzz in front of the B3.
 
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The input active/passive B3 switch is not like the input attenuators of some amps.This switch change the impedance of the input for correct connections between passive pickups and active circuits of basses or pedals.Other multis like the Line6 HD 500 have menus for that matter of input matching,very important for the correct pickup interaction.;)

This switch is very important when someone have his Whah or old type Fuzz in front of the B3.

Funny thing though, even if this were an impedance change, one should hear at least a slight difference in tone between settings. I think I most certainly am deaf! :D
 
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The XLR input on our board is mic level, however it has a button to pad or attenuate the input signal. That is another option I am considering. I was able to get the input level down to a usable state by reducing all the level settings on my B3 relative to the one patch I tried, (25-30 or so) but what I really would like is to leave them at around 100 like what most others do, and be able to tweak it at home and at practice without radically changing the level setting each time. But, I'll do what I need to do to make it work because I really do like the tone I was able to get!

I always try to keep all my levels in unity gain as possible.I start from the first one effect in the chain,then second,then third etc as i work with my chain and i keep always the total and global levels to 100 90% off the time.The reason is,maybe in the middle off a gig,my b3 fails or crash.Then if i remove the b3 of my signal chain,my volumes stays right with the others devices around me,like other pedals,DIs amps,PA speakers and consoles.I try to emulate a real one pedalboard.
Mind you that the levels in the effect level is not always unity at 100,and in case of amps or dirts there is a difference in volume and loudness.

The only solution for multis of any kind is to hook them in inputs that is made for them,not MIC ones.Always Line ins,whatever form they have,XLRs or TRS.


Zoom XLR output have 100Ω or 200Ω output impendance cable depended.


Cheers:thumbsup:
 
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Funny thing though, even if this were an impedance change, one should hear at least a slight difference in tone between settings. I think I most certainly am deaf! :D
No you are not deaf.I can't hear anything too:roflmao:.But there is something witch change for sure.I thing the name of that button is incorrect.The VOX Satchurator distortion pedal,have the same button witch have the name PAD.Satriani itself wants that switch in his signature pedal to avoid problems between differed pedals and interactions.

Take a look in that video,in 0:20 sec.Dany Gill says how that pad work.

 
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No you are not deaf.I can't hear anything too:roflmao:.But there is something witch change for sure.I thing the name of that button is incorrect.The VOX Satchurator distortion pedal,have the same button witch have the name PAD.Satriani itself wants that switch in his signature pedal to avoid problems between differed pedals and interactions.

Take a look in that video,in 0:20 sec.Dany Gill says how that pad work.



Brother Titanium, even after hearing this I am still very undecided, but still I love Satriani.

Cheers!
 
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I always try to keep all my levels in unity gain as possible.I start from the first one effect in the chain,then second,then third etc as i work with my chain and i keep always the total and global levels to 100 90% off the time.The reason is,maybe in the middle off a gig,my b3 fails or crash.Then if i remove the b3 of my signal chain,my volumes stays right with the others devices around me,like other pedals,DIs amps,PA speakers and consoles.I try to emulate a real one pedalboard.
Mind you that the levels in the effect level is not always unity at 100,and in case of amps or dirts there is a difference in volume and loudness.

The only solution for multis of any kind is to hook them in inputs that is made for them,not MIC ones.Always Line ins,whatever form they have,XLRs or TRS.


Zoom XLR output have 100Ω or 200Ω output impendance cable depended.


Cheers:thumbsup:
Just to be clear - I had everything set at unity (100) before I first tried my B-3 in practice. Using the direct out (XLR) it was waay too hot for our powered mixer. So are you saying the direct out is not an actual DI out and can't be used on my board channel's XLR in, and I must only use the 1/4" input? I can do that, but I didn't think it was necessary, as my belief was that the B-3 can be adjusted for instrument level, line level or mic level. I'm a little slow here, but I gather my best solution is to use either the "line" input on the board, or run my B-3's 1/4" out into my DI box and then use the "mic" input on the board. is that about right?
Mixer input.jpe
 
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Just to be clear - I had everything set at unity (100) before I first tried my B-3 in practice. Using the direct out (XLR) it was waay too hot for our powered mixer. So are you saying the direct out is not an actual DI out and can't be used on my board channel's XLR in, and I must only use the 1/4" input? I can do that, but I didn't think it was necessary, as my belief was that the B-3 can be adjusted for instrument level, line level or mic level. I'm a little slow here, but I gather my best solution is to use either the "line" input on the board, or run my B-3's 1/4" out into my DI box and then use the "mic" input on the board. is that about right?
View attachment 729409

You don't need anything but the b3 alone to work with.The B3 have 3 outputs,1 XLR balanced line level output (not mic one)and 2 TS unbalanced(L+R).For gig you need in most situations one balanced output for the console witch is far away from you and one unbalanced for your amp/monitor witch is near you.You need a simple instrument level cable from the L unbalanced channel of B3 to connect in the input of your amp/monitor and a balanced XLR cable to the multi-cable inputs.Now you have to find a nice XLR or TRS input on the console and you are done.
Some consoles have channels with XLR MIC inputs AND Line level TRS in the first channels with plenty sound control,like comps,HPF,EQ etc etc.Some have only XLR witch is MIC ones but with some wide gain level control and usualy a PAD attenuator to accept LINE level XLRs.Some times this inputs have the ability to control your hot line level output some times don't.Some others consoles have only MIC ins XLRs and some dedicated TRS inputs channels but without many sound controls in them.You must find one channel for you to accept you signal and thats it.If the console have XLR line levels ins use them,if don't but have TRS below that XLR input use a adaptor XLR->TRS and plug the cable in the TRS and you are done.If the console don't have anything of the above use your XLR->TRS adaptor to any TRS dedicated channels.Usually is at the end of the MIC channels on console,before the simple RCA stereo inputs and some times are stereo ones.
If and only,you have to use an MIC XLR input,only then you must connect your B3 XLR or L channel TS output to one PASSIVE Di input --> XLR MIC console input.And yes,there is DIs (always passive for line level devices or active basses) with TS or XLR inputs.

Your console have 2 channels,the 5/6 and 7/8 with line level TRS inputs.You can use only those,not the mic ones.Connect your adaptor to left channel on the 5/6 or 7/8 inputs and make that channels mono with the PAN.

In any of the above ways,you have the ability to keep your B3 levels in unity level,witch the only way to stay in safe signal/noice ratios.If you drop your levels way to much you rise the noice of the output to unacceptable levels.

Hope that helps ;)
 
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I always try to keep all my levels in unity gain as possible.I start from the first one effect in the chain,then second,then third etc as i work with my chain and i keep always the total and global levels to 100 90% off the time.The reason is,maybe in the middle off a gig,my b3 fails or crash.Then if i remove the b3 of my signal chain,my volumes stays right with the others devices around me,like other pedals,DIs amps,PA speakers and consoles.I try to emulate a real one pedalboard.
Mind you that the levels in the effect level is not always unity at 100,and in case of amps or dirts there is a difference in volume and loudness.

The only solution for multis of any kind is to hook them in inputs that is made for them,not MIC ones.Always Line ins,whatever form they have,XLRs or TRS.


Zoom XLR output have 100Ω or 200Ω output impendance cable depended.


Cheers:thumbsup:

Was able to do an A/B test: I have a Presonus BlueTube two-channel preamp, equipped with two VU-meters, which I have between my B3 and my EV ZLX15p. I originally bought it for some tube grit, before I found out that SVT sim does the job equally as well, but that's a different story. Anyway, it's a great DI and it allows me to closely watch the input levels for the ZLX to max it and prevent it from clipping.

Here, I had the 1/4" into the left channel and the XLR post-EQ into the right one. Volume on the BlueTube was set identically for both channels. By playing along and watching the VU meters, it turned out, that the XLR level is roughly 6db higher than 1/4" level. Guess, that's a factor that should be taken into account

Edit: originally wrote "SVT". Should have been "SVT sim". Kinda different spin
 
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Was able to do an A/B test: I have a Presonus BlueTube two-channel preamp, equipped with two VU-meters, which I have between my B3 and my EV ZLX15p. I originally bought it for some tube grit, before I found out that SVT does the job equally as well, but that's a different story. Anyway, it's a great DI and it allows me to closely watch the input levels for the ZLX to max it and prevent it from clipping.

Here, I had the 1/4" into the left channel and the XLR post-EQ into the right one. Volume on the BlueTube was set identically for both channels. By playing along and watching the VU meters, it turned out, that the XLR level is roughly 6db higher than 1/4" level. Guess, that's a factor that should be taken into account

Great info Heisenbass,thank you mate;)
 
The XLR input on our board is mic level, however it has a button to pad or attenuate the input signal. That is another option I am considering. I was able to get the input level down to a usable state by reducing all the level settings on my B3 relative to the one patch I tried, (25-30 or so) but what I really would like is to leave them at around 100 like what most others do, and be able to tweak it at home and at practice without radically changing the level setting each time. But, I'll do what I need to do to make it work because I really do like the tone I was able to get!

Then I'd say, it is very clear that the mic level at the receiving end of the B3 is the culprit. Sorry, but it seems your problem with too high levels has nothing at all to do with the B3, which has at its outputs line level (see the tech specs). So, don't blame your problems to the B3. Moreover, it is wrong to try to solve your problem within the B3. What you do results for sure in a suboptimal solution, since your signal to noise ratio gets rather bad if you set levels inside the B3, notably Total and Global levels, very low below 100. I suggest, you seriously think about finding a solution at the receiving end of things, i.e. by solving it at the cause of it and go back to more "normal" levels within the B3. You should then be able to enjoy your B3 much more.

Cheers, Andreas flf
 
Was able to do an A/B test: I have a Presonus BlueTube two-channel preamp, equipped with two VU-meters, which I have between my B3 and my EV ZLX15p. I originally bought it for some tube grit, before I found out that SVT sim does the job equally as well, but that's a different story. Anyway, it's a great DI and it allows me to closely watch the input levels for the ZLX to max it and prevent it from clipping.

Here, I had the 1/4" into the left channel and the XLR post-EQ into the right one. Volume on the BlueTube was set identically for both channels. By playing along and watching the VU meters, it turned out, that the XLR level is roughly 6db higher than 1/4" level. Guess, that's a factor that should be taken into account

Edit: originally wrote "SVT". Should have been "SVT sim". Kinda different spin

You measured what is to be expected from theory. A balanced signal chain adds the plus and minus signal - the whole purpose of it in order to filter out noise - and as a byproduct you get a difference in the level of 6 dB. Some receiving devices detect whether they receive a balanced or unbalanced signal at its XLR or TRS input and then automatically apply the so-called "6 dB correction". Again something to be kept in mind.

BTW, if you are interested in more details, here they are: Talbot-Smith, 2013.
Audio engineer's reference book, p. 2-79.
 
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You measured what is to be expected from theory. A balanced signal chain adds the plus and minus signal - the whole purpose of it in order to filter out noise - and as a byproduct you get a difference in the level of 6 dB. Some receiving devices detect whether they receive a balanced or unbalanced signal at its XLR or TRS input and then automatically apply the so-called "6 dB correction". Again something to be kept in mind.

BTW, if you are interested in more details, here they are: Talbot-Smith, 2013.
Audio engineer's reference book, p. 2-79.

Thanks. I'm not an audio engineer nor a physicist, just looking for clues. But, anyway it's nice when practice confirms theory. So often it does not...
 

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