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Double Bass Current makers, qualities of instruments they make (on topic)

B

Blakewdm

Jun 17, 2008
148
5
#1
Hello all,
I am looking to get opinions on basses currently being produced. makers like Chris threlkeld,Mario lamarr, schnitser..(sp). And hatchez. I would like to know what the opinion of sound is, whether it be orchestral or more a treble solo voice, quality of the work, and success that the instruments have found! Please feel free to add other makers, these were the ones that came to mind.
Blake
 
#2
I have 2 modern-maker basses. One from your list (Threlkeld) and another, IMHO, worth some consideration.

The Threlkeld is not one of Chris's typical instruments. The body is quite small (the ribs are probably around 5" deep on the upper bout and maybe 6" on the lower. The bass plays like a dream. Very low string hight, easy response, easy to get around, etc.

It has a deeper,darker sound but not really the "boom" that you'd expect in a larger orchestral bass. All things considered, it can still produce a good amount of volume.

The workmanship is great. Chris likes to give his instruments unique looks. For example, mine has a lot of blood wood accents and some brass inlays on the body. Also, this bass has been in the dry Colorado climate for the past 2 1/2 years and I haven't had any issues with cracks or seam openings.

I'm going to make some general pros and cons for the 5 or so instruments of his that I've seen and played.

Pro:
good workmanship
cool designs
sound quality: (especially on his larger-size models) they tend to have a big, cushiony sound. The sound is very pleasant to hear.
great setup: the ones I've tried have generally all responded quite easily
price: I think he may have raised his prices but still, I think you get quite a bang (boom) for your buck.

Cons:
sound quality: (this can be a pro or con depending on what you're looking for in a sound) I haven't heard any of his recent basses but, in general, the ones I've heard don't tend to have the most complex sound
finish: the finish is debatable. Mine has a satin finish and has held up amazingly well and I think it looks beautiful however, there are other new instruments out their that I like more.

The other new maker I'd suggest checking out is Christopher Savino. He works at Robertons in NM (violin turned bass maker). He's only made 2 so far and is currently building #3 (I have #1) which, I think may be ready for the ISB convention. The model he makes is based on a Cavalini that is owned by the Curtis Institute (maybe you're familiar with it).

Pros:
good workmanship
Looks: very attractive design. The finish is beautiful.
Sound quality: This bass has the ability to create quite a bit of sound (both arco and pizz). I wouldn't describe it as a bright or dark sound. It kind of has the qualities of both. In any event, to my ears, it has a very beautiful singing quality to it but also quite a bit of boom. Also, the pitches are very clear and will ring for days.
Setup: the setup is good, nothing really to complain about (but I think the Threlkeld may be better)

Cons:
Price: it's in the same price range as a Laborie. IMVHO, the price of new instruments is going through the roof. I don't think they should cost anywhere near what they do. That being said, I still bought it...
Finish: The finish, while beautiful, tends to chip rather easily. I've had to take extreme care to keep it from getting damaged.
Response: The response, while good and getting better, has been a little on the tight side. Part of it may be it needing break in or my needing to learn how it needs to be played. Either way, it's becoming easier and easier.


*edit*
If forgot to mention that while I do often use the smaller Threlkeld at work, this model would probably be considered more of a solo or travel type of instrument.
 
#3
If I was looking to buy a modern orchestral bass, the first two names to come to mind are Hatchez and Laborie. I've had limited contact with basses from Lamarre, Schnitzer, Arvi, Jackstadt and Threlkeld, but not enough to make any serious comments. The Lamarre's and the one Schnitzer I've tried were gorgeous.

I've tried maybe 8 or 9 Hatchez basses, including two made in the last year. I've seen two basic models, one being a bit larger than the other. The large ones have a big, complex sound right away. They don't seem to need much breaking in. His set up is impeccable, and the craftsmanship is stunning. There are a number of guys who have won jobs recently with these basses, so I guess the "success" rate is positive. The more recent basses have been the best I've seen.

I own a Christian Laborie (Quenoil model) and have visited his shop. I think he's one of the great makers of our time. His work is flawless, and the materials he uses are the best money can buy. Unlike Hatchez, his basses need some time to break in and can sound pretty raw at first. He makes a few models, which you can see on his website. If you're looking for an orchestra bass, I really love the Ceruti model. I've heard the Busan is also very nice, but I've never tried one.
 
#4
It seems like the prices of modern "good" instruments are really skyrocketing. Do the Laborie's and Hatchez's really sound twice as good as the Jakstadts, because they are nearly twice the price. I realize the prices are going as high as people are willing to pay for them, but for someone looking for a job-winning bass, going over 30k doesn't seem necessary. Jaks, Krutz, Cole, Grunert, all for 30k or less, and I'm pretty sure they're fit to win a job. I may be wrong, because I haven't won one yet. I was once told that if you're buying a bass over 40K, you're probably buying a name, and that's held true in all my searching.

Not sure how others feel about this, but I would like some feedback.
 
#5
Illfavor said:
It seems like the prices of modern "good" instruments are really skyrocketing. Do the Laborie's and Hatchez's really sound twice as good as the Jakstadts, because they are nearly twice the price. I realize the prices are going as high as people are willing to pay for them, but for someone looking for a job-winning bass, going over 30k doesn't seem necessary. Jaks, Krutz, Cole, Grunert, all for 30k or less, and I'm pretty sure they're fit to win a job. I may be wrong, because I haven't won one yet. I was once told that if you're buying a bass over 40K, you're probably buying a name, and that's held true in all my searching.

Not sure how others feel about this, but I would like some feedback.
Click to expand...
The economics of it seem pretty convoluted to me, and I'm sure there's more to the equation than I understand. There may be some level of "hype" behind Hatchez and Laborie, but it's coming from the top of the profession. A substantial number of well-regarded players and teachers have bought their own and recommended them to their students. I'm inclined to agree with them that there is something very special about these makers. The craftsmanship and the quality of materials are top-of-the-line, and the quality of the sound is breathtaking.

I bought my Laborie (Quenoil copy) in September directly from the maker. Even picked it up in person (I took some Invalid Link Removed of his shop and the bass). The bass was 21,000€, or about $31,000 at that time. His prices have gone up slightly since then, but Christian was very surprised to hear what his basses were selling for in the States.
 
#6
I think there is a big difference between 25k and 40k. In general I've found 10k to be a pretty true pricepoint for major differences in what you get for your money (10/20/30/40/50...). I find that you can get a lot of bass for 40k, enough for just about anyone. There are nicer basses but after that you really own a museum piece and the usefulness and practicality factor begins to fall. I will not forget my first Laborie because it was clearly at a different level from other new makers I've tried. I would live to try a mythical Hachez someday and expect to have a similar reaction.
 
#7
I like my new Golia bass . I've tried many of the new basses mentioned and The Golia sounds as good or better than any new bass I've tried. He uses the same Italian poplar that has been used for centuries in Italy. I wanted a huge sound and very easy fast response. And dark but pointed enough to cut through. He named this bass L'Empatico. That seems to descirbe my bass as he seemed to read my mind and nailed it. Anyone near Chi town is welcome to stop by and check it out.
By the way, all of the luthiers mentioned make great instruments and are very reputable guys.
If you search you can find pics of my bass. Huge lower bout, very playable upper. It's one of the few basses that if I set my strings higher I can get a huge sound arco or pizz. A low end like a Hawkws Panormo but a more responsive G string and much easier responce. If I keep my strings lower I can get a beautiful more legato sound pizz and still making a lot of sound arco. To me many large basses can put out a lot of sound but with slower response and more effort to get the top "moving" Not so here. I can get as easy response very ppp or fff . Usually you have to pick your compromise----easy response vs. upper dynamic range (how far you can "push" it). Or darkness in sound and the ability to cut through an ensemble. I don't know how he did it. Maybe alchemy.
 
#8
I purchased an Aaron Reilley bass a year ago. This is a large bass, 46 1/2" back, 20" across the top bout, 26 inches across the bottom with 10" rib depth. String is a comfortable 41". The back and sides are poplar. Due to the rib depth and the poplar the sound is dark and complex with good power. I do like the varnish also and Aaron loves to antique his finishes. I am very happy with it. His prices are very reasonable. My bass is his Opus 6. I think Reilley basses are worth a look.
 
#11
Back to the original topic, Arvi and Jackstadt basses are obviously both consistently excellent. I've spent a lot of time playing several basses by both makers, and never been let down. I've been playing an Arvi bass for 6 years now and have been very happy with it. The entire range of the bass is excellent, from low-C to thumb position and beyond the fingerboard, everything sounds good and speaks well.

Jackstadts are great as well. I chose the Arvi over a Jackstadt because I felt the sound "followed through" much better, especially in lyrical passages. Also, any note anywhere on the bass is clear and sounds good. Playing in thumb position on the A and E strings works great for both lyrical pieces and "bombastic orchestral passages." On a lot of basses one has to really "work" to get that register (TP on A and E strings) to work, but from my experience with Arvi basses, it is never a problem and actually sounds very good. I've found my bass and other Arvis to really have no weaknesses, and sound good down low, up high, and everywhere in between. But the Jackstadts I've played are powerful and sound great as well, especially in the "orchestral" range of the bass.

The Hachez basses I've played (3) are VERY resonant, and like (I think it was Paul) said, don't require much breaking in as they are very deep sounding right away. However, the strength of these basses is definitely on the low end. I found they don't carry as well as others in the higher (from mid-string) registers, probably because they're just better suited for the low-end. You guys may disagree with me, that's just what I found in my time with them. The price tag is steep, but for someone with the funds and the sole desire to shake the ground down low without much effort, seems like it could be a great match. I wonder if any his more recent instruments are different as regards to the projection and clarity in higher registers?

I had the privilege of playing a bass by Arnold Schnitzer, and thought it was fantastic, especially for the price (around 10/12G). Beautiful workmanship, great sound, especially down low. I wonder what pace Arnold will set for making basses, definitely something to watch out for.
 
#12
BTW, isn't it fantastic how many solid luthiers are making basses, and dedicating themselves to basses, these days? It's a real labor of love. Basses are difficult, and no price tag can adequately compensate these men and women for the hours, education, and inspiration necessary to build quality basses. When you compare what is available today to what was available in 1950...WOW!
 
#13
mdwallace said:
Jackstadts are great as well.
Click to expand...

I've not had the chance to see an Arvi yet, but have heard great things about them. I did get to work a little on a fine looking Jackstadt a couple of years ago, for a one season member of the VSO. I was very impressed by the sound, which the owner said had really stood out among the several Jackstadts he had been able to try. There was something dramatically 'alive' about that sound, throughout the pitch range, like it was sitting there silently humming with a huge energy and the player had only to release it by playing. I was much encouraged in my own antagonism towards horizontal braces on examining that one with its long X-brace. There are certainly better ways to do a flat backed bass than the old, crack-causing, seam-splitting horizontal braces. The workmanship was very competent if not utterly refined compared to that of makers such as Laborie or Charton, but the price was of course much lower as well. I hope to sample more Jackstadt basses some day to find how much of that sound is consistently available.
 
#14
A cursory glance at the Robertsons Bass inventory seems to indicate that they will be carrying plenty of new US luthier basses to the ISB convention. :hyper:
Does anyone know which other bass luthiers ,and bowmakers are likely to be in San Francisco for the ISB convention, or anyone representing overseas luthiers?
 
#15
JAKBOUND said:
Does anyone know which other bass luthiers ,and bowmakers are likely to be in San Francisco for the ISB convention, or anyone representing overseas luthiers?
Click to expand...
Christian Laborie was planning to attend, although he will not have a booth of his own. Robertson's is his North American distributor, so you'll likely find him and his basses with them.
 
#16
That's some welcome news. I've long looked forward to meeting Christian. One of my clients commissioned a bass from him in the 1990's, and it is a thorough joy having it in the shop. I'm happy to say that it has never been here to recover from a serious disaster. The worst incident involved a cat and a sugar glider and a tripod stand... but it was only a dual scroll cheek fracture letting the scroll tip forwards a couple of millimetres, and was fairly easily mended and has been performing beautifully for years since then. I exchanged emails with Christian at the time just to see how he would approach this repair, and the guy amazed me by suggesting I graft in a new neck. Thankfully I did not need to disturb his lovely work with such a dramatic surgery. It will be an honour to if I am able to meet him at the ISB convention.
 
#17
JAKBOUND said:
A cursory glance at the Robertsons Bass inventory seems to indicate that they will be carrying plenty of new US luthier basses to the ISB convention. :hyper:
Does anyone know which other bass luthiers ,and bowmakers are likely to be in San Francisco for the ISB convention, or anyone representing overseas luthiers?
Click to expand...
Robertson's will be displaying a new bass of mine as well. Anyone wishing to get together with me for bass-related chat or to pick my brain (what's left of it), please PM me and I'll shoot you my cell #. Gerard, looking forward to meeting you.
 
#18
JAKBOUND said:
A cursory glance at the Robertsons Bass inventory seems to indicate that they will be carrying plenty of new US luthier basses to the ISB convention. :hyper:
Does anyone know which other bass luthiers ,and bowmakers are likely to be in San Francisco for the ISB convention, or anyone representing overseas luthiers?
Click to expand...

Seth Kimmel will have a bass in the competition, and 1-2 others on display.

Eric Roy will have a bass in the competition.
 

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