Almost seems irrelevant now...
I'd love to hear from people who are playing Nick Lloyd basses.
If we're not going to talk about basses/makers, maybe this thread should be moved to the "Miscellaneous" section.
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Double Bass Current makers, qualities of instruments they make (on topic)
- Thread starter Blakewdm
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I'd love to hear from people who are playing Nick Lloyd basses.
If we're not going to talk about basses/makers, maybe this thread should be moved to the "Miscellaneous" section.
I'm seriously looking for a new instrument pending sale of my Hawkes and new makers are on the top of my list, so I'm really psyched for the ISB. Here's what I know will be there as I've been in touch with makers and dealers:
I'm most interested in Lloyd, Penning, Hannah Mayne, which are all identically priced.
Lloyd will have a walnut solo model, a 7/8, and a bass he made with Martin Penning.
I definitely want to see Kimmel's work- several basses will be there.
Martin Penning will be bringing a bass from England, and Gage will have another Penning. Gage will have Hannah's 7/8's I believe.
I also know Robertson is bringing the second Savino and a Guy Cole.
I'm smitten with a Laborie Testore as well, which unfortunately will not be there, though Laborie will be coming himself. There will be Busan and at least one if not two Ceruti's from Robertson's. (I played a Busan a few weeks ago, very impressive!)
I've also thought about commissioning a bass from Schnitzer, his current wait is 12-14 months he told me this week.
Gonna be a fun week!
I'm most interested in Lloyd, Penning, Hannah Mayne, which are all identically priced.
Lloyd will have a walnut solo model, a 7/8, and a bass he made with Martin Penning.
I definitely want to see Kimmel's work- several basses will be there.
Martin Penning will be bringing a bass from England, and Gage will have another Penning. Gage will have Hannah's 7/8's I believe.
I also know Robertson is bringing the second Savino and a Guy Cole.
I'm smitten with a Laborie Testore as well, which unfortunately will not be there, though Laborie will be coming himself. There will be Busan and at least one if not two Ceruti's from Robertson's. (I played a Busan a few weeks ago, very impressive!)
I've also thought about commissioning a bass from Schnitzer, his current wait is 12-14 months he told me this week.
Gonna be a fun week!
A Nick Lloyd 7/8 solo model, in walnut?! Egads!
Arnold Schnitizer's walnut basses are stunning, too. I still ogle the one he made for Don Higdon.
What a fun week you'll have!
Lloyd will have a solo model and a 7/8- not a 7/8 solo! e
Robertson's will have a 7/8 Milanese Schnitzer that's a few years old.
I worked on one of Nick Lloyd`s basses that he made for Daxun Zhang at UT. That particular bass is amazing. The ribs, back, and neck are all made from figured black walnut. The lower rib was made from one piece of walnut. Daxun has the bass tuned in half orchestra and solo tuning, A E A E. The workmanship on the bass is wonderful and the setup, which Nick does himself, makes the bass almost play itself. I was able to play the bass some, have to test before it leaves the shop, and the bass really speaks well for how new it is. It`s also a flat back, and many new flat backs have a real nasal tone or not much low end, Nick`s bass is even across the tonal spectrum. I make and repair basses here in Austin, and it`s always a treat to do work on really nice instruments like this. Oh by the way, Nick didn`t pay me to say this, just one luthier giving credit to another.
I just spent the day playing Seth Kimmel basses. I played the 3rd Ave and Gamba models in these pics. I also played the High Street bass that won a silver medal at the 2009 ISB. All 3 are amazing basses, but I liked the 3rd Ave bass best (the one he entered in this year's ISB competition and surprisingly won no awards
). Matthew Frischman (bassist with the Minnesota Orchestra) bought the Gamba and I bought the 3rd Street. 
For just over $16K, Seth's basses are a bargain. I highly recommend checking out Seth's basses.
The bass is on display in an art gallery in Eugene, OR through mid August.
Seth Kimmel bass :: 1309062679.jpg picture by Russellb672 - Photobucket
I also feel like the guys at the Cincinnati Bass Cellar should get a shoutout here. Bill Lakeberg and Chris Roberts get high marks year after year at the ISB, but they put out a low volume of instruments from what I can tell. Chris Roberts' 'Salo "copy" is one of the best modern bass I have ever heard. It's even in tone but the bottom end is just enormous, and obviously with a great setup and superior craftmanship. I just hope for a chance to play the next Prescott copy of Andy Stetson since they seem to always get sold within a week or two.
I did, it did have shoulders but had a fantastic and large tone, not nasally at all. One of the best tones there IMHO.
I'll have to put up some of my thoughts after participating heavily in the makers competition. I found my next bass maker! I will post after my deposit is in to him once my current bass sells.
... I bought the 3rd Street.
The bass is on display in an art gallery in Eugene, OR through mid August.
Seth Kimmel bass :: 1309062679.jpg picture by Russellb672 - Photobucket
Congratulations, Russell. It looks just lovely!
This is purely an observation - and one which may be COMPLETELY wrong, but I just wonder if anyone else shares it.
Having listened, looked and played several of the basses in the competition room, it seemed to me (and I'm strictly amateur) that what appeared to be a certain type of bass (which I would have guessed to be in the Lloyd, Schnitzer, Mayne, Lakeberg etc category) the differences were mainly of nuance and taste, by which I mean -
Over the past decade there seems to have emerged (perhaps because of the influence of Rabbath etc and the soloing opportunities for bassists) a desire for a more focused, "laser" sound - not harsh by any means; quite singing, clear, resonant etc;
But what seems to be fading away as "old school" (and this may be an influence of the ISB judging) is what I would describe as the dark, round "bloom" of maybe a more European sound.
Does this makes sense to anyone - or am I completely off bass. AND - I'm not saying that this is good, bad or indifferent. It just seems to be the nature of the way the sound of the instrument is evolving.
Thanks
Louis
PS: For what it's worth, I thought one of the best basses I heard the day I was up there was Arnold's ergonomic bass, seemed to have some of the "darker" qualities I described... So it just may have been these competition basses.
Having listened, looked and played several of the basses in the competition room, it seemed to me (and I'm strictly amateur) that what appeared to be a certain type of bass (which I would have guessed to be in the Lloyd, Schnitzer, Mayne, Lakeberg etc category) the differences were mainly of nuance and taste, by which I mean -
Over the past decade there seems to have emerged (perhaps because of the influence of Rabbath etc and the soloing opportunities for bassists) a desire for a more focused, "laser" sound - not harsh by any means; quite singing, clear, resonant etc;
But what seems to be fading away as "old school" (and this may be an influence of the ISB judging) is what I would describe as the dark, round "bloom" of maybe a more European sound.
Does this makes sense to anyone - or am I completely off bass. AND - I'm not saying that this is good, bad or indifferent. It just seems to be the nature of the way the sound of the instrument is evolving.
Thanks
Louis
PS: For what it's worth, I thought one of the best basses I heard the day I was up there was Arnold's ergonomic bass, seemed to have some of the "darker" qualities I described... So it just may have been these competition basses.
I know what you mean- sort of. The basses that seems to get the best rewards from the Judges seems to have the darker, larger, traditional sound. I'm thinking Lloyd, Hachez, and Aaron Reily's basses in particular, who all got medals for tone.
Ultimately it's about finding the sound that you want in your bass for your needs. I voted for the Hachez, as I thought it was a great bass, but it's not what I want for own atypical jazz/freelance career. I played some Laborie's (the rabbath thing) again, and you're right, they have a very different sound aesthetic, brighter, but still great, of course.
Everything became much more clear when they played the basses in the hall the next day. That's where many of the best basses stood out, IMHO.
Perhaps I'm missing something but it seems that LouisF is saying that the basses with the darker, larger sound are NOT the ones that seem to be preferred and that that's a sound that's "fading away."
Robin seems to be saying the opposite-- that the basses having the darker, larger sound are the ones that ARE preferred by the judges.
LouisF and Robin seem to put Lloyd basses, for example, in opposite categories.
For what it's worth, although I was not at the ISB, the trends I've observed seem to square with those of LouisF. That is, the more singing, resonant, and, to me, "thinner" sounding basses are the ones that are becoming "preferred." I'm much more a fan of the "old school" sound that LouisF describes.
Robin seems to be saying the opposite-- that the basses having the darker, larger sound are the ones that ARE preferred by the judges.
LouisF and Robin seem to put Lloyd basses, for example, in opposite categories.
For what it's worth, although I was not at the ISB, the trends I've observed seem to square with those of LouisF. That is, the more singing, resonant, and, to me, "thinner" sounding basses are the ones that are becoming "preferred." I'm much more a fan of the "old school" sound that LouisF describes.
Perhaps I'm missing something but it seems that LouisF is saying that the basses with the darker, larger sound are NOT the ones that seem to be preferred and that that's a sound that's "fading away."
Robin seems to be saying the opposite-- that the basses having the darker, larger sound are the ones that ARE preferred by the judges.
LouisF and Robin seem to put Lloyd basses, for example, in opposite categories.
Well, I was a little unclear what Louis F was saying, but in any case, the judges seemed to prefer the larger sounding, deep, dark, classic orchestra sounding basses if you look at who got tone awards this year. I didn't mention Puglisi- also dark, very English like. The judges
Nick Lloyd's 7/8 was dark and had a huge bottom, no doubt about it. Opposite of the Laborie's, which weren't in the competition.
Perhaps Louis can clarify. I thought he was suggesting the judges were into the traditional sound, and he thought maybe not all the makers were going for that. I certainly think the judges were going for a round, traditional, deeps sound. Think of the players- Kurt Muroki (who owns the Schnitzer ergo bass Lousi mentioned), Check Israels, and David Murray! I don't see David getting a Quenoil anytime soon, do you ?
It's not easy to talk about tone, similarly to wine judging or other areas where terminology seems to be all over the map. So subjective, with the terms chosen often more reflective of the listener's experience/educational background than any sort of uniform set of meanings for such words. But in a forum what choice have we? Sound clips? Then recording quality and room sound come into play...
For what little it's worth, if I was hearing anything like a 'trend' or an 'average' sort of sound among the 25 new basses in the competition it was something like this. Generally lots of E string volume, a bit on the darker side. Middle strings tending towards a tubby, honky sort of sound. G string quite a leap, into a nasal, very thoroughly projecting quality. To my ears at least this describes at least 1/3 of the basses, perhaps closer to 1/2.
Now Arnold's bass was nothing like that. Very evenly powerful, and hugely powerful compared even to Daniel's winning bass. A wonderfully open sound, and with the surprising twist of the corks-in, corks-out difference, where corks-out seemed to bring the whole sound 'closer' to me somehow without actually increasing volume. Very subjective again.
The bass owned by Murray which he demonstrated in the end was a first bass by a US maker (sorry, didn't catch the name), which was also quite powerful and fairly even, though I did find the G string sound a bit tight, especially up high. It was very well adapted to his preferred range; that is to say, playing 'cello repertoire above the octave on the D and G. I'm not especially fond of that sort of 'bass' playing, but that's taste, and obviously not shared as the Karr school is quite large these days. Not to be overly argumentative... but I suspect that something like a larger model Quenoil would suit Murray quite nicely. A Laborie made for a bassist who's been a client of mine for over a decade is such an example. A wonderfully large, mellow bottom sound, very satisfying when bowed well, with a setup and tonal characteristics perfectly suited to above-the-octave passage work, as it is largely used by its owner. It's an impeccably made instrument which she had the honour of watching during its construction while in Paris. Murray's intonation suffered with some of the larger-shouldered basses, where a Quenoil model or some other solo-ish design would suit his thumb position better.
For what little it's worth, if I was hearing anything like a 'trend' or an 'average' sort of sound among the 25 new basses in the competition it was something like this. Generally lots of E string volume, a bit on the darker side. Middle strings tending towards a tubby, honky sort of sound. G string quite a leap, into a nasal, very thoroughly projecting quality. To my ears at least this describes at least 1/3 of the basses, perhaps closer to 1/2.
Now Arnold's bass was nothing like that. Very evenly powerful, and hugely powerful compared even to Daniel's winning bass. A wonderfully open sound, and with the surprising twist of the corks-in, corks-out difference, where corks-out seemed to bring the whole sound 'closer' to me somehow without actually increasing volume. Very subjective again.
The bass owned by Murray which he demonstrated in the end was a first bass by a US maker (sorry, didn't catch the name), which was also quite powerful and fairly even, though I did find the G string sound a bit tight, especially up high. It was very well adapted to his preferred range; that is to say, playing 'cello repertoire above the octave on the D and G. I'm not especially fond of that sort of 'bass' playing, but that's taste, and obviously not shared as the Karr school is quite large these days. Not to be overly argumentative... but I suspect that something like a larger model Quenoil would suit Murray quite nicely. A Laborie made for a bassist who's been a client of mine for over a decade is such an example. A wonderfully large, mellow bottom sound, very satisfying when bowed well, with a setup and tonal characteristics perfectly suited to above-the-octave passage work, as it is largely used by its owner. It's an impeccably made instrument which she had the honour of watching during its construction while in Paris. Murray's intonation suffered with some of the larger-shouldered basses, where a Quenoil model or some other solo-ish design would suit his thumb position better.
