• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

We talk about Drummers some more

mellowinman

mellowinman

Free Man
Oct 19, 2011
11,818
18,518
63
Minneapolis
#1
I have posted before on this forum about our ongoing problem with drummers. People have all kinds of ideas about drummers, but I believe that if you are going to be a drummer in a cover band, you need to have the following:

  • Tempo - You need to know the tempo a song should be played at, and you need to be consistent. You should be at the same tempo from beginning to end of any song, unless that song has a part that is at a different tempo or time signature
  • Time signature - You need to be aware of the song's time signature, so you can play the song with the correct feel
  • Feel - You need to duplicate the feel of the original, and not do "happy beats" when the mood should be darker, or more rocking
  • Dynamics - You have to be able to play any song louder or softer, based on the room, or even the PA you are dealing with. It is probably more challenging to do this in a small time cover band than it is playing for Aerosmith
  • Work Ethic - You have to have this. You cannot assume you have all your parts down because you played with the record at home. Many hit songs FADE OUT, and do not have endings. Many others have different versions, whether the original radio version, a live version, etc. There are many reasons you need to spend time going through the material with the other real musicians you are playing with, to find that group dynamic that makes your band stand out, and sound professional
  • Decent Gear. If you are playing small venues, or medium venues, and the band is providing sound and PA, it is important that you have some drum mics, or your kick will be lost in the mix, and you will be heard with no effects. It is better to mic drums. You also need a good kit, with well-maintained heads, and you need to be a guy who tunes frequently, so that your kit sounds good with the band.
Those are the most basic aspects of playing drums in a working cover band. We have had our share of drummers, and we have consistently had problems.


Drummer #1


Drummer #1 came to us when we were a start up. It would be hard to attract top players. We had little gear, and no name in this town. My wife had been in this local scene quite a number of years ago, but then went out on the road, and then "retired" due to her father slowly dying of cancer. She started up this band at least a little bit rusty. I was never known in this town, as I came from somewhere else. We managed to find a great guitar player, who was only 20 years old at the time, and had no experience. He just happened to have natural talent.


So we got Drummer #1, and he was a little weak. We noticed his weaknesses more and more, as we rehearsed, and played our first few shows. He didn't have a natural sense of tempo. He was inconsistent. Mostly, he lacked confidence, and sounded a bit tentative at times.
We discovered that by working with him, and practicing hard, and getting him to practice with the metronome at home, he could overcome some of these issues. We threw some fairly challenging material at him, and to his credit, he did pretty well with it at times.


Here is a video of us on a pretty good stage, doing "Long Tall Sally" into the long version of "Whole Lotta Love."


Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Love - YouTube


At this time, we thought he was going to work out, as his weaknesses got better as time went by.


We worked with this guy for about a year and a half. On a personal level, we really liked him a lot. He is a great guy, and shows up on time, ready to rehearse. He has a great kit, and nice Shure drum mics and stands.


His worst problem was that when he felt intimidated, like when musicians from other bands came to see us, he lost his place; he made strange mistakes; just stuff that could have been worked out through more practice.


Unfortunately, he decided it was too much work, and he stopped practicing at home. He grew frustrated, and made more and more big mistakes at shows.



I was the one who fired him. I didn't mince words; I called him up and said, "I've got some bad news," and then added, "we've decided to go with someone else."


Our guitar player was mad at me for doing it, because he liked him very much. The thing is, I liked him very much as well, and I didn't enjoy firing the guy. I wished it could have worked out, but musically, he was holding us back, and I didn't see more effort coming in the future. He was tired of having people tell him how to play his instrument. I can't say I blame him for that, but I also couldn't just ignore parts in songs where the rhythm fell apart.


I'll always remember him for that performance at Martin's that I linked above. We had a good night, and the people liked us.


If you've read all this, then you now know the story of Drummer #1.
 
#2
Drummer #2

Drummer #2 came to us from a Craigslist ad. He was into playing metal, but thought classic rock would "be easier," and wouldn't be as taxing on him as a player. I guess he got tired playing metal; I don't know. I don't play metal, so I don't know how easy or hard it is. I know he was surprised by some of the stuff he had to play in classic rock! We do plenty of songs with time changes, and a lot of queues for starting and stopping, and changing to different sections of songs; I think we have a set list that is somewhat challenging to a drummer. Maybe not in a technical way, but you do have to know what you're doing, as far as I'm concerned.

This guy was LOUD. He really hit hard. He could definitely play. He had a great sense of tempo, and he knew different techniques, and styles. He was the reason we got a drum shield. He sometimes got heavy with his foot, like he was bringing some metal to our classic rock show. I liked him as a player. He tended not to want to practice as often, or as long as we did. He tended to like to come to shows later than we liked to get there. And the worst problem was, I don't think he particularly liked our band, and I don't think he wanted to be a drummer.
He sang, and played guitar in another band, and his wife was the lead singer. He used our guitar player in that band for awhile.

Here he is playing "Train Kept a Rollin'" with us.

Train Kept a Rollin' at Checkerz - YouTube

I didn't love his kit. It didn't sound that good to me. He didn't tune it much, and some of the heads had a lot of duct tape on them. We had some personality conflicts, and I wanted him out.

My guitar player didn't want him out. We had some conflicts over how much everyone gets paid vs how much work everyone does, and we ended up coming to the mutual conclusion for him to leave. He was never fired. I did do a fairly dick move of advertising for a drummer after a conflict where he broke some wheels on my speaker, and then left without helping us load out. I told him "do NOT leave without helping us load out," and he left. I ran the ad. We tried to talk to him, but he wasn't answering his phone or returning calls, and as far as I was concerned, he was out, but we had a meeting with him, and that was when we agreed to part ways. His last words were, "have fun with your band."
I always have fun with my band, even when things aren't going well. Our guitar player was OK with the way things ended, and we went back to Craigslist.
 
#3
Drummer #3.

Drummer #3 did not look like a guy who fit in with us. He seemed a little more "hip" than us, and he was a DJ on a local Christian station. I was the one who wanted him in. He wasn't as good as Drummer #2, but he was better than Drummer #1. He was surprisingly nervous when we were at gigs. He did well at practice, but tended to speed up at gigs. Here he is playing with us at "Rockin' the River."

Tie Your Mother Down at IPFW Rockin' the River - YouTube

Anyway, he might have worked out, or not; we'll never know, because he was having some pretty big life changes. He quit his job with the local radio station, and took a job with the Disney Channel. He left us high and dry, with two gigs with no drummer, and we got a fill-in guy.
 
#4
Drummer #4

Drummer #4 was not really trying to be in our band. He was a fill in drummer. He was pretty good, and had a good sounding kit, but he had major health problems. He had already had nine heart attacks. NINE HEART ATTACKS!!! He'd had his pancreas replaced, and some other organs as well, and he said that whatever was wrong with him that made him keep having heart attacks was fixed.

Him being our drummer scared the crap out of me. I asked him, "if you die during a show, how do we split pay? I mean, I could give your family something, but technically, you wouldn't have played a whole show, you know?" Not to mention no one would enjoy it. Least of all him. We used him to play at a friend's wedding reception, and he was out in the hot sun. I made them get a big umbrella, and put it over him. I was really worried about his health that day. We only played a couple hours, and I loved the way he played "Voodoo Child (slight return)."

Voodoo Child (Slight Return) - YouTube

I thought he did a great job, having not had much time to practice with us, and both my wife, and our guitar player wanted to bring him on as our drummer.

Unfortunately, this was during the time when we were experimenting with having a second electric guitar player in the band, and that was not going well. That guy was Drummer #4's friend. Guitar player #2 booked us a gig that was the worst day of my life. I talked about it on this forum somewhere, but basically, we drove four hours, made not enough money to pay for gas and food, played in the hot sun, and had a sound crew that were drunk and stoned, and didn't know what they were doing. Oh, and they had garbage equipment.

A lot of bad blood happened that day. A guy rang monitors out into my ears, and I made a comment that I should ring my fists out into his face. Drummer #4 didn't get the best impression of me that day; he probably didn't like how we treated his friend, (who played louder than anyone else; made up parts to songs onstage that we never rehearsed, and tried to push our other guitar player to the side so he could be the star,) and he did a lot of grumbling in rehearsal after that.

He didn't want to play so many fast or difficult songs in a row. He wanted more new or uptempo music, and less classic rock. He disagreed about tempos to songs we had on the list. He wasn't going to be our drummer anyway, and he blew us off for a practice. I heard later he had a medical emergency, so I would've gotten over him not calling, but then a week went by, and he still hadn't called, but he had been seen at local bars.

Not cool. We were tired of Craigslist, and we started hitting up local players, in an all out search for a permanent drummer for this band!
 
#5
I guess I have been spoiled. The last three years I have been playing with a drummer who fits with my style perfectly. We worked together years ago and it wasn't until 2007 that we actually jammed together.

He plays LOUD. Numerous other musicians have made the comment 'you'll never have to mic him, that's for sure.', but he can back his $#*% up. There's almost nothing you can't put in front of him and he can't keep up. Off tempo, time changes, he eats it up. Holds a tempo like a Swiss watch. Has a nice giggable kit, an awesome attitude and wants to play as much as I do, which is pretty much any time I'm awake.

Now guitarists, don't even get me started.
 
#6
Drummer #5

Drummer #5 had it all. He loved our set list. He was obsessed with tuning his kit. He had a large, good sounding kit. He could play every song with the correct nuances, and feel.

First sign of trouble:

We went to a Guitar Center Drum Solo contest, and he played an OK solo, but nothing to write home about. Some kids and others played some that were more flashy, but noisy, and not terribly skillful, and one of them won.

The next day, Drummer #5 left me a message that we would have to get someone else, because he was never going to play drums again.

I realized he was struggling with depression, and I'm sorry, but I don't think that's reason enough to turn your back on someone. I started spending a lot of time with him. I thought maybe if he just heard how good he could be, playing with us, and kicking some rock and roll ass, it might help his self-esteem.

Unfortunately, I misdiagnosed him, as I am not a practicing Health Care Professional. Oh sure, he had OCD, and was Bipolar. I could've dealt with those. Heck, many musicians can be diagnosed with those!

But he had Borderline Personality Disorder. Look it up.

The first time he showed up to rehearsal with swollen eyes, and then told me he had been hitting himself, I knew this wasn't going to work out. The phone calls about how "by the time you hear this I will be dead," weren't encouraging, either.

And the guy has real talent, believe me. In rehearsal, he was the best drummer we ever played with. He was like a human metronome. He had the feel. He had the sound. He loved the material. He had everything. Did he just threaten to break his girlfriend's fingers if she didn't do his laundry right?

Here he is playing "Always on the Run" in a guy's basement.

Always On the Run - YouTube

That wasn't his kit. His kit was twice as big. He was great in practice, but he was freaked out at the only gig we did with him. We had practiced for this show for three months, and when we went to play, he forgot everything we had practiced. He played too loud. He played too fast. He forgot where parts where in songs.

He had decided my wife was a "controlling woman," and finally, he made comments I took as threatening.

I told him something I will not repeat on a public forum, and it's what you think I would tell anyone who is a threat to my wife.

Drummer #4 came to that show, and he told my wife he wants to be our drummer. I am not convinced that will happen, due to his health issues, but he is rehearsing with us Sunday. He is an excellent fill in drummer, and I would use him any time.

He really didn't like Drummer #5, and neither did our guitar player.
 
#7
Drummer #6 was a fill in. People in this town say he is the best drummer in the area. He has a swell sounding kit. He rehearsed our four hour show with us ONCE, and did a great job on it at the gig we used him for. He is in two bands now, and doesn't have time to join us. In watching back video, he does "get happy" on beats sometimes, and I noticed several tempo issues, where he kept getting faster as the song progressed. I don't know if that was because of the lack of practice with us, or if that's a bigger issue.
I'm not going to post video of him, at least not relative to this post, because the book hasn't been written on him.

As far as I know, we are still looking for "the" drummer.

I used to spend a lot of time looking for "the" woman, too.

My friends wanted me to settle, but I wanted it all.

I got it.

I will get what I want regarding drummers, too. We will find a guy who meets all the criteria, and will HAVE FUN playing with this band.
 
#8
BassNeo said:
I guess I have been spoiled. The last three years I have been playing with a drummer who fits with my style perfectly. We worked together years ago and it wasn't until 2007 that we actually jammed together.

He plays LOUD. Numerous other musicians have made the comment 'you'll never have to mic him, that's for sure.', but he can back his $#*% up. There's almost nothing you can't put in front of him and he can't keep up. Off tempo, time changes, he eats it up. Holds a tempo like a Swiss watch. Has a nice giggable kit, an awesome attitude and wants to play as much as I do, which is pretty much any time I'm awake.

Now guitarists, don't even get me started.
Click to expand...

It's always something, BassNeo.
 
#10
Where are all these bands with unreliable drummers? I'm a drummer primarily and I've always had the same problem: finding people who were dedicated, talented and with reliable equipment. I never run into the people who want a solid, dynamic drummer with a good personality and good equipment. They usually have already found them.
 
#11
fourstringdrums said:
Where are all these bands with unreliable drummers? I'm a drummer primarily and I've always had the same problem: finding people who were dedicated, talented and with reliable equipment. I never run into the people who want a solid, dynamic drummer with a good personality and good equipment. They usually have already found them.
Click to expand...

Well, one of them is in Fort Wayne, IN, a good ways from where you are.
 
#17
mellowinman said:
He really wants to be in.

The other two members want him.

It's kind of up to me now.
Click to expand...


This is drummer #4 you're referring to, yes?

This one?

mellowinman said:
He didn't want to play so many fast or difficult songs in a row. He wanted more new or uptempo music, and less classic rock. He disagreed about tempos to songs we had on the list. He wasn't going to be our drummer anyway, and he blew us off for a practice. I heard later he had a medical emergency, so I would've gotten over him not calling, but then a week went by, and he still hadn't called, but he had been seen at local bars.
Click to expand...

I'm somewhat surprised the other band members want him back in.

Not that he isn't a solid drummer. From the video, he obviously is.

But it sounds like, if you do decide to have him "back" in the band, that some expectations about musical direction and communication need to be set in stone from the outset, at a full band meeting.
 
#18
more coffee said:
This is drummer #4 you're referring to, yes?

This one?



I'm somewhat surprised the other band members want him back in.

Not that he isn't a solid drummer. From the video, he obviously is.

But it sounds like, if you do decide to have him "back" in the band, that some expectations about musical direction and communication need to be set in stone from the outset, at a full band meeting.
Click to expand...

See, this is what's nice about this band management forum. I get to air things out a bit, and hear from objective parties.

I was surprised he wanted to be in so badly. He did a rehearsal with us a week or two ago, and he kept wanting to play songs HE wanted to play, and I told my wife he would really need to show me something on what I know he DOESN'T like to play as much.

She must've talked to him, because today he was here, and I called off a few I expected him to disappoint me on, and he really didn't.

I appreciate your feedback, and I agree with it. I'm not convinced he is the guy, more because of the health issues than anything else, but I am willing to give him a chance.

We jammed with supposedly the best drummer in this town at our last show, and although he did play some really great stuff, that might have been beyond what any of the other drummers did play, I still thought he didn't "get" the feel of some songs, and he just didn't practice with us enough to know endings/arrangements, etc.
 
#19
mellowinman said:
So, for anyone checking this thread out, did you listen to Drummer #4, and what do you think of him?
Click to expand...

He sounds fine, but I would be at least as concerned as you are, or more, regarding his health issues.

I played in a band once with a drummer who had had some health issues. He was fine rehearsing in HIS basement where all he had to do was sit down and play. When we played gigs, however, he would look very tired and "green around the gills" by half-way through the night, and wiped out by load out. It always worried me that, if we ever got up to regular gigging, whether he could stand the workload. Didn't matter, I left and they're still only playing a handful of gigs.

Being a drummer is physically taxing. I assume you want to get up to a regular schedule, say a few gigs a month, maybe more? If so, how will his strength hold up on the long haul? You might just straight up ask him this, and gauge his response to help make the decision. Good luck, you guys sound good-- I like your music.
 
#20
mellowinman said:
Him being our drummer scared the crap out of me. I asked him, "if you die during a show, how do we split pay? I mean, I could give your family something, but technically, you wouldn't have played a whole show, you know?"
Click to expand...
You pro-rate the amount of the night he played compared to the time he spent dead.

Be sure to factor in the time EMS spent working on him, as technically you weren't playing during that time either.

Randy
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back