Pre-amps with Bergantino IP's

I have a similar general question along these same lines I'd like to pose to all IP owners...

I've had a PM discussion with someone who's taken a lot of the posts here as being fairly negative about the IP series, whereas I don't necessarily percieve them that way.

The crux of it is, have most of the IP owners discovered that, after owning them for a while and gigging with them, that they're somewhat unhappy with the sound, that it lacks something for practical situations such as gigs? Also, do you feel they require not only a preamp to sound good, but maybe even one of potentially only a few specific preamps to work well... in that not all preamps even work well with them?

So, what do y'all think?

It is kinda odd that people rave about how great the IP cabs are, then hunt around incessantly for a preamp to put in front.

I'm not naysaying them...today is actually the first day I've thought seriously about buying one. I plugged my new (old) WW Lo-Power into my HT112 and was pretty shocked at how great it sounded. Of course, now I'm super curious about how the old Woods would sound into the IP...

I was a skeptic. The raves are about the IPs being a blank canvas. Bassists go play them and find out how blank they are. Then hunt down the preamp of their choice.
Here to fore if you wanted Ampeg sound you bought Ampeg and so forth. Now you can change pre amps and do different gigs.
Now can hear your bass like never before. Then you season to taste. Sort of like buying a bass and knowing that it will sound better when you get it home and put your favorite strings on.
My '57 p-bass reissue sounds like buttah through the IP with no pre. I had no idea because I bought it for my Roscoe kind of gigs. I really just think I need a pre in case I need to tame some room acoustics. I generally play my amps flat or with reduced treble and tweeters barely on.
You know it's really okay if these are a significant step forward for us. Radial tires were a sudden improvement for all drivers. Bias ply tires still have some advantages. So excuse me I'm going over to Talktire.

The IPs also expose the limitations of preamps. You can hear where some just drop off. This search is a labor of love as we search for the sound we hear.

I have a scad of great preamps, and to be honest, I have not gone through all of them yet. I don't really have definite favorites, but certain preamps do better at certain tasks, and go better with certain basses. The IP cabs will be true to whatever the preamp brings to the table. I hope to do a "Great Preamp Shootout!" one of these days. Gotta find the time, though...

As for the Berg line driver, I have used numerous effects pedals before the input, but I have not tried any after the output. The ones I tried "upstream" of the line driver worked great.

Tom.

Vic said:

The crux of it is, have most of the IP owners discovered that, after owning them for a while and gigging with them, that they're somewhat unhappy with the sound, that it lacks something for practical situations such as gigs?

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Not at all. In fact, 100% the opposite.

Vic said:

Also, do you feel they require not only a preamp to sound good

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Nope, and you heard them without a preamp, so you can judge for yourself. That said, I think that you have more volume potential and more "room control" with a preamp.

Vic said:

but maybe even one of potentially only a few specific preamps to work well... in that not all preamps even work well with them?

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The only preamps that don't work well with them, IME/IMHO, are preamps that don't sound good. Seriously. If the preamp is to your liking, it should sound exceedingly good through an IP cab.

Tom.

tombowlus said:

Nope, and you heard them without a preamp, so you can judge for yourself.

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Yeah, but my question was about the gig environment. I mean, yeah, at your place it made me drool all over myself, but as we all know, gig situations are real different. I have no doubt about the output capability, I was just wondering if maybe people were finding the sound almost "too pure" to be effective in a live setting, hence the search for the preamp to make them so. I wish I had the opps to gig with one, but I don't see any opps for me to do that at this time.

Vic said:

Yeah, but my question was about the gig environment. I mean, yeah, at your place it made me drool all over myself, but as we all know, gig situations are real different. I have no doubt about the output capability, I was just wondering if maybe people were finding the sound almost "too pure" to be effective in a live setting, hence the search for the preamp to make them so. I wish I had the opps to gig with one, but I don't see any opps for me to do that at this time.

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Talk to Cheezewiz. He's heard my IP cabs live.

tombowlus said:

Talk to Cheezewiz. He's heard my IP cabs live.

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Yeah, but it was you playing right?

J/K I had to.

with my trusty MTD 635 in tow, i got to try an IP310 w/ my Kern IP777 (extra bacon grease tubey fat), and my avalon u5 (clean, mean, with that oh-so sheen).

both preamps sounded terrific and translated gorgeously thru the cab. big thumbs in sooo many ways. whatever your needs, the IP cab i tried was like tonal velcro.

jokerjkny said:

with my trusty MTD 635 in tow, i got to try an IP310 w/ my Kern IP777 (extra bacon grease tubey fat), and my avalon u5 (clean, mean, with that oh-so sheen).

both preamps sounded terrific and translated gorgeously thru the cab. big thumbs in sooo many ways. whatever your needs, the IP cab i tried was like tonal velcro.

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I love hearing you describe stuff. Kills me.

If I love the IP cabs, I am thinking of a dual preamp rig. SOmething very TUBEY (sell me your Kern ) and something tubey but more refined.

First two combinations that come to mind are the DB680 or DB659 and an Eden Navigator.

tombowlus said:

(...)


The only preamps that don't work well with them, IME/IMHO, are preamps that don't sound good. Seriously. If the preamp is to your liking, it should sound exceedingly good through an IP cab.

Tom.

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+1

at the shop i tried the IP310, they had a Sansamp Bass DI hooked up as a line driver, and while it sounded nice, my Kern and U5 literally blew that sucker outta the water then tossed it up for one more mid air shot.

This morning I played my Fender American Standard Passive 4 string completely raw, right into the IP112. I found new tones that I have never heard on that bass and was loving it. Tonight at the gig, I used the Sansamp DI box and lost a lot of the detail I heard earlier that day going direct. I'm borrowing the Sansamp just until my DB659 comes in. I'm using the preamp mainly for it's gain stage, not necessarily for it's coloration, although I am hoping for some smooth tube warmth from the Aggie. What I plan to really gain from the preamp is the routing options for the tuner, being about the mute my rig for switching basses, and being able to shape my tone beyond the scope of the bass. So yeah, played my IP112+EX112 again tonight, outside, with no PA support for my bass and it sounded fantastic, even with the Sansamp DI box.

I was going to try and wait for Jim's Berg line driver, but I couldn't wait any longer.

I might suggest listening to the different preamp clips listed on the Invalid Link Removed website. It was great to hear how some preamps really colored the sounds, while others really didn't make a noticeable difference to the sound. To each his own...if you want a Ampeg sound, try a SVTCL preamp...etc.

I still haven't heard reports on out the Line6 Bass Pods are doing with the IP series. I would assume that it would be really good, but I have no first hand experience. I know I didn't care for the CMOS on my Boss GT-6B.

Good luck with your quest!

Tom,

Have you tried a TD-1 into an IP yet? Given the way IP owners seem to feel about them I would suspect that would be a killer combination.

Joelc73 said:

Tom,

Have you tried a TD-1 into an IP yet? Given the way IP owners seem to feel about them I would suspect that would be a killer combination.

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I suspect the same, but have not been able to try this combination (yet).

BigMikeW said:

Yeah, but it was you playing right?

J/K I had to.

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Good point! So, crappy technique and screwups aside, the few notes that I played well sounded really, really good! Of course, the ones I played poorly came through loud and clear, too...

BigMikeW said:

If I love the IP cabs, I am thinking of a dual preamp rig. Something very TUBEY (sell me your Kern ) and something tubey but more refined.

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Actually, I was thinking of this same thing, except I'd use one that gets nice and dirty and something that is nice and clean. I may be able to do this all with one preamp using my Trace Elliot TVT9, which is a 2-channel tube guitar preamp. It sounds pretty darned good on bass, though one of the channels needs a little fattening up (surprsingly, the other does not). It sounds killer, though, and if I can get both channels to be "bass-friendly", it'd be tough to beat for switching between a clean and overdriven tone.

Tom.

tombowlus said:

Talk to Cheezewiz. He's heard my IP cabs live.

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Tom can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he was using an Aguilar preamp when I heard his IP's in a live band setting. They sounded great! Huge low end, but at the same time, controlled and not at all mushy or flabby. Nice punchy mids, cutting highs, it was all there!

cheezewiz said:

Tom can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he was using an Aguilar preamp when I heard his IP's in a live band setting. They sounded great! Huge low end, but at the same time, controlled and not at all mushy or flabby. Nice punchy mids, cutting highs, it was all there!

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Yup, the DB 680, and to be honest, I probably didn't need it. I had it set "flat" and the gain was barely on. In fact, I had to turn down the gain on the IP cabs (and in fact, I had to turn one of them off! ) to be able to get a usable signal through the 680 (meaning, more than just barely on).

Tom.