• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Playing in the pocket?

#2
Welcome to TB, Hazy Dayz. I'm not sure if there is an exact definition, but I'll try and explain as best as I can.

"In the pocket" means to be playing a groove that fits the rhythm and feel of a song without adding extras (i.e. fills/runs.) George Porter Jr. of The Meters is a great example of a pocket player.
 
#3
You can add plenty of fills and runs - I'm certainly sure I recall lots of tasty 'extras' from George Porter Jr (great player, BTW) - the art of being in the pocket is that whether or not you choose to add in a bunch of fills, the bassline 'grooves', fitting in with the sense of time being collaboratively created by all the musicians. For example, maybe everyone lays back and plays the first beat of each bar just a fraction late but if you do this together, the 'distortion' of the pulse of the song creates a 'deep pocket'.

It's very subjective... but listen to The Meters and you'll hear what the pocket sounds like :D

Wulf
 
#6
Pocket has a lot to do with the drummer. Think of a rubber-band. The band is on the front edge of the beat and the only thing holding it back is the snare drum. If you watch a good drummer his snare hit will be slightly late. This adds tension which creates a feeling of forward motion that makes you want to do crazy things. When this happens, give iin and dance man!!
 
#10
Originally posted by Jason Carota
George Porter Jr. of The Meters is a great example of a pocket player.
Click to expand...

+1

George Porter Jr. is one of my favorite bassists and an ideal example of a Pocket Player.

For me, playing in the Pocket means holding down a Repeating Form. A pattern of notes that repeat and are centered around the root. It has less to do with Fills then with notes per measure and turn around.

With Jazz, I can take a simple, 4-chord progression and (through 40 measures), never play the same pattern twice. Playing the extensions, modes, ect... can create a non-repeating pattern through the same progression.

So a (simple) Jazz line for example...

The form is all Major7, C-D-A-G. 4/4, 96bps.

An out of pocket line may be something like:

Cmaj7: 1st - 5th - 3rd - 7th
Dmaj7: 7th - 3rd - 5th - 1st
Amaj7: 5th - 7th - 3rd - 1st
Gmaj7: 1st - 3rd - 7th - 5th
----------------------------
Cmaj7: 1st - 3rd - 7th - 5th
Dmaj7: 5th - 7th - 3rd - 1st
Amaj7: 7th - 3rd - 5th - 1st
Gmaj7: 1st - 5th - 3rd - 7th
-----repeat Progression with different pattern--


Whereas a pocket line could be something like:

Cmaj7: 1st - 5th - 3rd - 7th
Dmaj7: 1st - 5th - 3rd - 7th
Amaj7: 1st - 5th - 3rd - 7th
Gmaj7: 1st - 5th - 3rd - 7th

---or even this if you repeat it every time through

Cmaj7: 1st - 5th - 3rd - 7th
Dmaj7: 7th - 3rd - 5th - 1st
Amaj7: 5th - 7th - 3rd - 1st
Gmaj7: 1st - 3rd - 7th - 5th

So, I don't know if there is a "theory-based", Technical definition of the "Pocket" but that's how I choose look at it.

I will migrate in an out of the pocket depending on what is going on in the song. With my band (Horns, Percussion, Drums, Guitar and Bass), when the guitarist solo's, the groove falls out so I drop back into the pocket. Under a Trumpet Solo, I climb out of the pocket to give him a broader foundation to play over.
 
#12
Originally posted by Easy Rider
You're keepin' it in the pocket when the groove makes you feel so nice you wanna jump back and kiss yourself. :)
Click to expand...
That's the pocket. It's not playing the same thing again and again it's not playing a line with no fills - listen to something like Brickhouse by The Commodores... that's pocket playing as I understand it but there are plenty of fills in there.

To be fair, there is a very strong motif (A C D G G# A, followed by a fill) that is played by the bass for most of the song but we could also find numberous walking bass lines that keep 'in the pocket' while moving all over the place.

There have been plenty of stimulating discussions about this in the past - for example, how about:

Originally posted by deepbob
the pocket refers to the relative space between an ensemble where musicians lock up a groove.

where feel describes the style of the groove, the pocket is the degree to which the musicians achieve this groove between themselves.

so, an ensemble can play "swing" poorly, by playing it more straight, or square, but if the ensemble all do this *together*, they can still be in the "pocket", while that pocket may not be so jazzy.

this becomes more and more of a concern as the feel gets more complicated/difficult/et al, eg rock/blues/jazz and so on.

the closer to the pocket the group gets, the more you tend to want to tap your toes and go "ooo", because things lock up and pop the way they were intended to.

:)
Click to expand...
taken from this one :D

Wulf
 
#15
In the pocket isn't as much about what you play as it is how you play.

To me, is when the bass and drums are really locked up tight. You know exactly what beats to lean into and which ones to ease off of.

There are tons of players who are great at it and others never get it. Listen to some Motown records (especially Jameson) and you'll get the idea pretty quickly.
 
#18
the drums supply a beat; when you add the bass you create a pulse; thats what makes you want to tap your feet! Playing a teeny-tiny bit ahead or behind the beat makes tension/release (the snare does it,too). When we were auditioning drummers (I play in southern rock bands) I insisted "this old cowboy" by Marshall Tucker. Its got a jazz swing to it. Sounds easy...untill you try to play it! The bass is all over the place;not a lot of notes but some places bass "pulls" the beat;others is on the beat. When the guitar solo kicks in, I pull the hell out of the beat!Drives the solo to a frenzied height. the drums have to keep up,but after the solo the beat has to drop RIGHT back into the pocket,or the song is 2-3x faster and totally looses the groove! tough on a drummer.But a good gauge of if he's "got pocket". (Steve R; now in southern steel got it EXACTLY during the audition! I insisted we hire him!)
 
#19
The best way to learn how to play in the pocket is to slow it down and strip it down to the bare minimum.

In the past month or so I just picked up playing with a new drummer. This year, I've been beating myself up about not grooving well enough at slow tempos...Then I hooked up with this band, and the drummer doesn't like to play above 80 bpm, and most of its less! I've got a heavier groove now than I ever did. Speed sometimes hides feel.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back