Double Bass Need help with head & cab for double gigs

Howdy. So according to your profile, you don't have an amp or a speaker cabinet now? Just the PJB preamp?

Yes, the Bass Buddy looks like a preamp / DI / practice tool.

Well, the possibilities are ... quite varied. I guess for starters I can say that you don't have to get a two-channel amp. On a typical one-channel head, you can say run your Precision into the amp's main input, and route your upright through your Bass Buddy into the effects return. Voila. Now you can double on a gig, albeit with a bit of knob twiddling when you switch.

Since there are a lot of options for you, I'll just tell you what I have in-depth hands-on experience with:

- D/TAR Solstice 2 channel preamp / blender / mixer into a Euphonic Audio iAMP-200 C Wizzy combo. I used the DTAR to blend a pickup (RS II) and a mic (AMT or a Beyer). You could also use it to double on DB and slab.

- Acoustic Image Focus 2R Series III into a Euphonic Audio Wizzy M-line. Two channel head. Used for blending the DB pickup and mic, OR for DB in one channel and EB in the other.

In either case, when I use electric bass, I put a SansAmp Bass Driver DI in front of the amp to treat the signal a bit. I like the SansAmp for a certain thickness it adds w/ its fake tubes. And I like its EQ and tone shaping controls a lot for slab.

Others will chime in w/ their doubling experiences and suggestions too no doubt.

P.S. I just got a Joe Osborn 5-string BTW less than 2 months ago. And I have a Bob Glaub too.

hgrind said:

I've found these that have two channels, I think..; the EA iAMP Micro 300, Ampeg Portabass 500, Acoustic Image Focus, Aguilar AG500, Phil Jones M-300 and SWR Natural Blonde. Now, a couple of these might be out of my budget, and maybe a couple isn't suitable for electric? I don't know, that's why I need help. How much watts should there be, and what cabs is good alternatives with these?

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I think that the Focus or the EA Micro would be the best of these choices, especially for upright. The press is still out on the Micro since it's pretty new, so I'd read the posts concerning the amp. There are always problems with the first runs of a product. The Focus has a proven track record. You could stay within the budget with a EA Micro and the new Wizzy 10 though.

hgrind said:

I mic my upright with the RS II, and sometimes with a condenser mic in addition, but the mic goes right to the mixer in that case. Electric basses is a Fender Precision and soon a 5-string jazz (Lakland JO I think), so the cab must handle a low B.

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Well, once agian the Focus wins because you could actually use both the mic and pu if you desired. It's got all the features you could ever want in that case. As far as the low B thing goes I think I'd consider getting a second cabinet eventually. Problem is the Focus head alone would take all but $100.00 if you're budget.

I use an AI Clarus III with a Bergantino HT112 cabinet. You would most likely want a two channel head, but the Bergie is a great doubling cab. If I need more volume I add a SWR 112 bass monitor.

My basses are a New Standard Cleveland, laminated, with gut strings & a BassMax(currently), and a "72 P-bass w/flatwounds & an EMG.

Very plug & play. Surprisingly loud.
URB sound is limited by the BassMax a bit, but very accurate.
Slab sound is nice and warm, old school but not flabby.

Good luck,
-J

hgrind said:

Thank you, Bolo! I didn't know about the effects return thing. But the knob twiddling you refer to is something I'd like to avoid - I just want to pick up the other bass, just turn down/up the volume, push a mute switch or something and be ready to play.

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Yeah, that's all I meant by "twiddling". Turn down one knob, turn up another. No biggie.

hgrind said:

I've thought about the DTar Solstice. I guess I could have the upright on one channel, the electric on another, have it eq'ed there, and put it into a singel channel amp with the eq on that one set flat?

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Yeah, exactly ... except the Solstice EQ knob for 'Bass' is set a little high (frequency-wise). It is really an EQ designed moreso for acoustic guitar I think, but it's very musical and usable - except when you need more deep bass.

I think one option worth exploring might be using the PJB Bass Buddy you already have w/ your upright into the effects return of a decent one-channel head. That might sound really good, and would allow you to double. The two channel AI heads though are extremely well thought out, and feature rich. But, like Ric said, expensive.

Ric Vice said:

You could stay within the budget with a EA Micro and the new Wizzy 10 though.

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Hmmm ...

I've taken a bit different route and just use a Boss A/B pedal with electric bass and EUB. It's possible to find a compromise EQ that suits both or put a preamp on the URB side (maybe the Bass Buddy).

For big gigs, I use an SWR SM400 plus GK 410 cab (their smaller sealed one). For small gigs, I use a Clarus + Wizzy 12 and have also used an SWR WM12 combo at times.

Anyhow, I guess my point is that I've never used a two channel amp, even with URB and still done okay at a variety of gigs as long as I have the A/B pedal.

I reeeeeeaaallly like the Radial Bassbone for doubling. In addition to A/B switching, it has eq for one of the channels, separate volume controls, boost, effects loop, tuner out. Also, if you use it with a single input, it sense this and lets you just switch between channel one and two for the single instrument.

It almost turns a single channel amp into a two channel amp. Not the cheapest thing out there, but reasonably priced for what it does, imho.

Here's a link with description by Bob Gollihur:
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Cheers

i've played them all from Walter Woods to GK.
the woods for upright has no peer but neither does the price tag.
i just bought the SWR Natural Blonde for my carved upright and it is perfect.
i said carved Juzek upright with a David Gage Realist...................
if you have a plywood upright it might suck, if you have an electric upright it might suck, if you have a carved upright it might suck.............you need to take your bass to the store and play 100 amps. the tricky thing and horrible torture about upright and the associated equipment is it's so delicate and different. i play electric and i know what works, good luck with the "fat Girl' as i call mine. seriously go play alot of stuff with your bass.

hgrind said:

Thank you, Bolo! I didn't know about the effects return thing. But the knob twiddling you refer to is something I'd like to avoid - I just want to pick up the other bass, just turn down/up the volume, push a mute switch or something and be ready to play. Then I guess it would be best to have two channels. I've thought about the DTar Solstice. I guess I could have the upright on one channel, the electric on another, have it eq'ed there, and put it into a singel channel amp with the eq on that one set flat?

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I use the D-Tar Solstice for exactly that purpose, but, I plug the Solstice into the return slot on my amp, which allows me to bypass the pre-amp section on the amp and just use the power amp, and use the Solstice as the pre-amp/eq. Otherwise, especially at a loud volume, you sort of have two pre-amps "fighting" each other when you plug the Solstice into the amp channel. At lower volumes, it doesn't seem to be a big deal to plug it into the amp channel, but I don't run it that way. So the way I run it, it bypasses the eq section of the amp, and the eq is taken off the Solstice, which I tend to run fairly flat anyhow. I also have a parametric eq/feedback destroyer I use on the real high volume gigs only, and I plug that into the Solstice instertion jack on the upright channel only. But for lower volume stuff you won't need that. It does work well as a way to double, pick one bass up, set the other down, play. Gain structure is important though, and I needed some help myself to figure it out. I had it wrong at first, which was adding to my upright feedback woes in certain situations, which I've pretty much totally solved now. I do wish the Solstice had mutes for both channels, it just has a mute for the whole system, so when I'm not playing the upright, I turn the volume on that channel down quick, or If I'm using my wireless, I shut it on and off on the bass as I switch.
I have two bass rigs, one I just leave at a house gig I do weekly, I use my other rig for the rest of my gigs. So I started trying another way to double on one of my rigs too not long ago, and with very good results. I bought Fdeck's pre-amp for 50 bucks, and a cheap A/B box. That's it. I haven't had many, if any, issues with eq and volume level's between the electric and upright switching off that way. Just switch channels on the A/B box, and pick up the other bass. It almost sounds bolder or something, more balls maybe, doing it that way than using the Solstice, but both seem to work well. Only "drawback" to this method I've notced is I seem to get more fingernoise on the upright this way, or maybe it's just less forgiving of bad technique..... A pre-amp and an A-B box is a real cheap way to go though, and it does work, and the pre-amp isn't even 100% needed maybe, but mine seems to do better with it, at least to me ears. I too use a RS II pickup. I play mainly traditional country.

Markbass LMK is a two-channel Little Mark 2 with independent gain, master, and tone controls for each channel. Don't know what it costs, but I have the LM2 and it's possibly the best amp for upright I have ever heard in my life, especially if you have an RS II.

I have a Little Mark II. It's a good amp overall and sounds pretty good for bass guitar with active electronics, but not so good for old Fenders with standard passive pickups. I'm not at all fond of the LM II for double bass, and to me it leaves a lot to be desired there. I also don't find the EQ to be very useful.

My hands down favorite for doubling is my Walter Woods Electracoustic amp. It sounds great with any bass and any pickup.

YMMV of course.

robgrow said:

I have a Little Mark II. It's a good amp overall and sounds pretty good for bass guitar with active electronics, but not so good for old Fenders with standard passive pickups. I'm not at all fond of the LM II for double bass, and to me it leaves a lot to be desired there. I also don't find the EQ to be very useful.

My hands down favorite for doubling is my Walter Woods Electracoustic amp. It sounds great with any bass and any pickup.

YMMV of course.

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And it does V. I play pretty much nothing but Fenders and I have nothing but good things to say about my LM2 with them. Same with my upright. I'm not the only one who says it, too.

I was just offering my opinion. Sorry.

Rob Mancini said:

And it does V. I play pretty much nothing but Fenders and I have nothing but good things to say about my LM2 with them. Same with my upright. I'm not the only one who says it, too.

I was just offering my opinion. Sorry.

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No offense intended. Just giving my opinion. If everyone liked the same thing, it would be quite boring.

I've spent a lot of time working on my doubling rig. Here's what I've settled on:

I have a small pedal board that has 2 signal chains: for my upright (carved/Realist), I run into the LR Baggs ParaAcoustic DI to a Lehle A/B box (best A/B box I've ever used). The electric (a Lakland JO5) first hits a Sadowsky outboard pre/DI and into a Demeter Compulator compressor into the second channel of the Lehle.

Out of the Lehle, the signal hits a Demeter 201 pre into a Stewart power amp into an EA M-line Wizzy.

Sounds like a lot of gear - but it's actually really compact and simple. The pedal board keeps everything cabled up and tidy. Also, for me it was better to hit any preamps BEFORE hitting the A/B box. Impedance issues are taken care of before the split and before the Demeter/Stewart/Wizzy rig.

Works great for me.

Ian

i'm obviously limited in my knowledge (being a EBG guy), but i've been completely taken with the PJB stuff, especially the new Neo Powered cabs. The PJB [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] seems perfect for upright, as it has two of the speakers pointing up, so you could just put it beneath you and your upright. plus, add an extension cab, and it's a full gig worthy rig, no matter what venue you're in. IMHO

p.s. Ed Friedland uses a Flightcase for his upright gigs. FWIW

TrevorOfDoom said:

p.s. Ed Friedland uses a Flightcase for his upright gigs. FWIW

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I'm not sure that's entirely true. I did see a Youtube video of him demo'ing the Flightcase where he said he had used it on a few of his jazz gigs. But here and here he talks about using one of the new Genz-Benz Shuttle rigs these days. He also mentions that a Bergantino HT112 cab has been his first call for 6 years.

Finally, he has a page on his website for gear too - and PJB is not listed.

Based on what I've read about the Flightcase, I don't think it would be nearly loud enough for most of my doubling gigs. I am intrigued by the upfiring drivers for quiet cramped gigs though.