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Double Bass which is better for upright, tubes or solid state?
- Thread starter ao'connor17
- Start date
I would think you would be able to get a flatter sound with a solid state amp like a Euphonic Audio head. I always thought that was ideal for an upright bassist, but I'm just putting that out there for I don't play an upright.
From what I gather, most upright players use solid-state. The reason may not be due to fundamental differences between these technologies. At moderate volume levels, there is not necessarily a big difference between tubes and solid-state, so that other factors such as weight and cost become more important. Also, many historical tube amps happened to be designed with preamps that are voiced favorably for electric bass. This is not a technical necessity of tubes, but would explain why upright players lean towards amps with flatter response, which happen to be solid state.
Here's what I said a few days ago. For the most part, tubes are preferred for musical instrument amplification because of the details of the manner in which tubes distort. That is, when they are driven past their linear operating regions. This is often done intentionally when amplifying electric guitar (EG). The distortion characteristics can also be achieved with solid-state circuitry.
When distortion is not desired, there is no particular advantage of a tube amplifier. Some, especially, EG players prefer their "warm" sound-- a sound that is characteristic of the frequency-response anomalies that arise from the interaction of the output transformer and the speaker. Such a transfer function can also be achieved quite well with solid-state circuitry.
I think it's fair to say that many (if not, most) DB players want to amplify their instruments accurately and, in so doing, wish to avoid distortion and response anomalies. When that's the case, a good solid-state circuit wins by a long shot.
Having said all that, it's worth pointing out that one of my hobbies is being a "tubeophile." I've spent quite a bit of time in the restoration and use of vintage hi-fi vacuum tube amplifiers.
When distortion is not desired, there is no particular advantage of a tube amplifier. Some, especially, EG players prefer their "warm" sound-- a sound that is characteristic of the frequency-response anomalies that arise from the interaction of the output transformer and the speaker. Such a transfer function can also be achieved quite well with solid-state circuitry.
I think it's fair to say that many (if not, most) DB players want to amplify their instruments accurately and, in so doing, wish to avoid distortion and response anomalies. When that's the case, a good solid-state circuit wins by a long shot.
Having said all that, it's worth pointing out that one of my hobbies is being a "tubeophile." I've spent quite a bit of time in the restoration and use of vintage hi-fi vacuum tube amplifiers.
Using tubes for Double Bass amplification is somewhat counterintuitive.
Tube amps, by in large have to be bigger and heavier than their solid state counterparts. They also tend to be more expensive, since tube manufacturing is a boutique industry these days. Some of us can remember when most common tubes were readily available at the local drug store along underneath the tube tester. That's simply not the case anymore. I love my B-15 N but frankly I'd rather take my Walter Woods to the gig. It's much easier to transport and it sounds better.
Ric
Tube amps, by in large have to be bigger and heavier than their solid state counterparts. They also tend to be more expensive, since tube manufacturing is a boutique industry these days. Some of us can remember when most common tubes were readily available at the local drug store along underneath the tube tester. That's simply not the case anymore. I love my B-15 N but frankly I'd rather take my Walter Woods to the gig. It's much easier to transport and it sounds better.
Ric
I have played my DB through my D-180/1X15 & liked it but I think I'm after a fairly different(from most DBists)tone. Lugging the doghouse and the tube rig would be a large PITA, but I'm 99 44/100% slabbist anyway. Bottom line: what everybody already said.
I used to play everything through an SVT and liked that sound well enough. The B15 fliptop ampeg made sounded pretty nice with a DB too. Weight and portability, as mentioned above, led me to start using modern boutique stuff (Clarus, Wizzy10) and that sounds really terrific to me right now, albeit different.
So, yea, there are tone advantages/disadvantages to each as well. Try some out and see what you like.
So, yea, there are tone advantages/disadvantages to each as well. Try some out and see what you like.
According to my experience, tubes add to the sound kind of a "3D dimension". The solid state sounds flat, two-dimensional. I have this same impression anytime I compare some tube amp (either some very old one or my SWR Electric Blue with tube preamp) with my GK. Not to mention AI, that's one dimensional sound, to my ears, of course... Just my radical opinion.
I agree completely with the sentiment of what you posted--but-- tubes actually are quite readily available once again. In fact, some of the classic American twists on various tubes are now being manufactured once again in re-tooled Russian factories as well as elsewhere. [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]is but one example.
Durb,
I had not realized that the Russian Tube Factories were producing tubes at such reasonable prices. There was a time in the late 80's that tubes were rather hard to find. I'm actually relieved since I'm currently having my B-15N restored and will most likely replace the tubes once a professonial has replaced the filter caps.
Ric
i realize i am in the minority, but i think that an upright through a fliptop sounds awsome... that is not to say that solid state is bad, acoustic image, walter woods, even swr and eden are fantastic for upright, and way easier to eq.
i have always felt that the sound of a piazzo kind of kills the sound of an upright, and having a tube amp adds a little of the life back to the sound. i use a alembic fx1 and solid state power amp w/ a underwood piazzo, and the sound is pretty sweet.
i have always felt that the sound of a piazzo kind of kills the sound of an upright, and having a tube amp adds a little of the life back to the sound. i use a alembic fx1 and solid state power amp w/ a underwood piazzo, and the sound is pretty sweet.
Much of this "rebirth" occurred in the late 80's and early 90's. I contacted some of the manufacturers and, for a while, was receiving all kinds of product literature, including 5X7 glossies of the latest tubes (those seemed pretty funny) and even samples. Beware of the re-branded Chinese tubes. Companies would (and I presume, still do) buy them in the hundreds. Most would have "soft" vacuums, some would even have cigarette ashes in them. Out of a giant "vat" there might be a handful of good ones. Those would be re-branded with American names and sold at high premiums. I have had very good results from the Sovteks and Svetlanas in the restorations I did of hi-fi tube amps. One of the most impressive histories is the restart of the "mothballed" Western Electric vacuum-tube manufacturing equipment here in the USA. You can now buy a single WE300B for a mere $400!
I love the sound of my ply/realist thru the B-15. I haven't tried it with a lot of other amps but this sounds, to me anyway, better than any upright combo I've heard in person. I'm not overdriving the thing but I have played at some higher volumes and it just sounds... fat, round, and, yes... warm too. It may not be the exact sound as no amp at all but it has a depth to it that I haven't heard from any solid state. If it's "colored" at all then color me satisfied. Of course, the P-bass with the flatwounds sounds even better thru it.
This just reinforces that it's the sound that's important and not the particulars of the circuitry that achieves it. If a particular setup works for you, then great! Enjoy! IMO, however, there is, in general, no particular advantage offered by tube circuitry for amplification of DB
One important factor is that the double bassist has a social obligation to show up with the smallest possible car, and have the smallest amp on stage. 
I played last weekend at a 6,000 seat auditorium through my iPod Nano with an 8 piece salsa band. It sounded just like my bass, only louder.
