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0 - 40Hz subwoofer

#41
notrt :cool: That's great said:
With the ELF, the BE 1x18 is truly impressive, and it delivers the goods as promised. I have not gigged with it, though, and to be honest, do see where the ultra lows may have limited use in a live setting (for a bass rig, at least). I may try it with the PA, too.
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#44
westland said:
Walt Disney and his team of cartoonists slowed down the 60-cycle tone of a soldering iron in a short cartoon. At a low-frequency 12 cycles, they became sick for days afterwards.
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Huh?

What tone does a soldering iron have, and how would they slow it down?
 
#47
That's a pretty cool idea.

For large installations, just hook a speaker output up to the collective pitch control on a helicopter! :p

But seriously, it's neat. It probably adds some good stuff for home theater (provided the audio tracks on the movie go down below 20Hz, which they may not), and would be good for pipe organ recordings.

As an aside, the ELF system isn't really at all comparable. It compensates for the reduced efficiency through equalization, and it's main claim to fame is that it is a good way of equalizing that doesn't introduce excessive phase distortion. There's no way an ELF 1x18 could match this new thing below 20Hz though. It can't handle enough power to reach the same SPL.

I would like to see, however, some intermodulation distortion (IMD) graphs for this, and a group-delay plot. A delay of a couple hundred milliseconds probably wouldn't be noticed when there's a big explosion in a movie, but for a low pipe organ note that could be obnoxious.
 
#50
link wray said:
Any frequenties under 25 hertz on a recording are unintended by the recording engineers, wich would make this gadget a very expensive gadget for people who'd rather impress others with their system than think logically about music reproduction.
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You can't really say that, now, can you?

There are may CDs that have frequencies under 25Hz. Intentionally. Some even have little warnings on them about being careful not to damage your speakers (for instance, recordings of pipe organs that go down to 16Hz or 8Hz).
 
#52
nashvillebill said:
Many years ago, it was the 1812 Overture that challenged audio systems...needles would jump out of their groove when the cannon went off (needles? grooves? what's those, grandpa?), and speakers would self-destruct......

Ah the good old days!!! Now it's rap that can challenge audio systems?? :eek:
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I prefer to call it cRap. Unless they have a real bassist.
 
#53
Plain Old Me said:
I prefer to call it cRap. Unless they have a real bassist.
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I'd say the label stands whether they've got a real bassist or not. Seems ironic in a time when you've got the most advanced capabilities you have the least creativity. The real early stuff was refreshing - Wild Thing, the Beastie Boys and that period. That's stuff has gone steadily downhill ever since. They are starting to get some backup vocals in it though. Maybe in another twenty years they'll start putting music back in it.

I've listened to some interviews and watched some documentary on that stuff and it's ties to blues and all that but please, if you have to watch a documentary to become aware of that and can't hear from the sound they're putting out, then it ain't tied to the blues in my book.

Now, for something on topic. Regarding mention of the symphony thing, in regards to the "Onkyo tone," that those deep strings in a symphony has that bottom Onkyo quality to it, even though it's obviously not below 40hz. At least I assume. Isn't a bass violin typically tuned to a low E?
 
#56
luknfur said:
Hmmm,

what speakers did you use and what are the parameters?
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I built it for the car originally, but it ended up in the house instead. I picked 2 speakers out of a "Everything is $20" bin at the local auto parts store. The Brand is "Fly". I've never heard of em either........

They came with no T/S specs, but being so cheap, I suspected high QTS and very low EPB. So I put em in a sealed box, quite prepared to try a few different cab sizes until I found something that works. I fluked it first go! It does more "damage" than anyone elses home theatre sub in my network of friends and family, and theirs are all well know brands (abliet mine is a bit bigger).

My point is this - Small areas such as living rooms are a different ballgame to your typical gig venue. I'm sure if I took this sub out to a gig it would fall flat on it's face before it even came close to producing enough bottom end. And yet, this "Fan" device is aimed at the home theatre market???
 
#57
I can't imagine that you could reverse direction fast or accurately enough. I wonder if it's 'biased'-up to half-speed, and the speed is varied above and below this?

It'd be like a 'class-A' kind of thing. I could see pulling something like that off - maybe with a PWM drive.

Joe
 
#58
Petebass said:
I built it for the car originally, but it ended up in the house instead. I picked 2 speakers out of a "Everything is $20" bin at the local auto parts store. The Brand is "Fly". I've never heard of em either........

They came with no T/S specs, but being so cheap, I suspected high QTS and very low EPB. So I put em in a sealed box, quite prepared to try a few different cab sizes until I found something that works. I fluked it first go! It does more "damage" than anyone elses home theatre sub in my network of friends and family, and theirs are all well know brands (abliet mine is a bit bigger).

My point is this - Small areas such as living rooms are a different ballgame to your typical gig venue. I'm sure if I took this sub out to a gig it would fall flat on it's face before it even came close to producing enough bottom end. And yet, this "Fan" device is aimed at the home theatre market???
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Yep, it happens but definetly a long shot. Not even in a box that says who makes them and where? The speakers ought to at least have the wattage and ohms on the back.

I've been messing with car audio speakers some and I'll go up to 10". Are these sub subs or woofers. What are you using with them - for mids or top end or is this a matched pair for full range?

Fan? You really mean a fan - as in Leslie speakers? Are these like powered subwoofers?
 
#59
luknfur said:
Yep, it happens but definetly a long shot. Not even in a box that says who makes them and where? The speakers ought to at least have the wattage and ohms on the back.

I've been messing with car audio speakers some and I'll go up to 10". Are these sub subs or woofers. What are you using with them - for mids or top end or is this a matched pair for full range?
Click to expand...
They did have come in a box but I've moved house twice since I bought them, so the boxes are long gone. From memory they are 300W at 4 ohms, but if you ask me, it's 300w is a massive exageration. Foam surrounds and the small magnet make me thing 50-80W is closer to the mark.

They are dedicated subs. The listed Freq response as 30Hz to 300Hz, but again, I'm not taking this too seriously, especially the 30Hz part. They've got a resonant frequency of 40Hz but most of the energy is in the 50-60Hz range, which incidentally is plenty low enough to make explosions and kick drum hits shake the walls and vibrate through the couch, especially in a confined space such as a typical living room. Putting the sub in the corner of the rooms helps.

I've got it crosed over at 100Hz at 12dB per octave. The mids and highs are handled by the 5 satelite speakers around the room, some of which I made using cheap Dai1-chi speakers out of Asia. The rest which came with the home theatre package and will be replaced whenever I get around to building new ones.

The whole system was an experiment. I wanted to see if good quality floorstanders which only cover part of the frequency range (no subs) would sound better than cheap nasty speakers which cover the full spectrum. It started out as a bet between myself and my brother-in -law who's expensive Wharfdale setup IMO needed a sub and better speaker placement. To prove it, I built a cheap system which blew his away (punn intended). The end result worked well enough to make me stop gassin for the Vifa drivers I'd always planned to use. I have no doubt the Vifa's would sound better, but this cheap setup is keeping me more than happy now.
 
#60
Petebass said:
They did have come in a box but I've moved house twice since I bought them, so the boxes are long gone. From memory they are 300W at 4 ohms, but if you ask me, it's 300w is a massive exageration. Foam surrounds and the small magnet make me thing 50-80W is closer to the mark.

They are dedicated subs. The listed Freq response as 30Hz to 300Hz, but again, I'm not taking this too seriously, especially the 30Hz part. They've got a resonant frequency of 40Hz but most of the energy is in the 50-60Hz range, which incidentally is plenty low enough to make explosions and kick drum hits shake the walls and vibrate through the couch, especially in a confined space such as a typical living room. Putting the sub in the corner of the rooms helps.

I've got it crosed over at 100Hz at 12dB per octave. The mids and highs are handled by the 5 satelite speakers around the room, some of which I made using cheap Dai1-chi speakers out of Asia. The rest which came with the home theatre package and will be replaced whenever I get around to building new ones.

The whole system was an experiment. I wanted to see if good quality floorstanders which only cover part of the frequency range (no subs) would sound better than cheap nasty speakers which cover the full spectrum. It started out as a bet between myself and my brother-in -law who's expensive Wharfdale setup IMO needed a sub and better speaker placement. To prove it, I built a cheap system which blew his away (punn intended). The end result worked well enough to make me stop gassin for the Vifa drivers I'd always planned to use. I have no doubt the Vifa's would sound better, but this cheap setup is keeping me more than happy now.
Click to expand...

Okay, you're talking about a home theatre system, not a system you play bass guitar through?

I'm currently using a Vifa (was used in some Mackie monitor) in my micro cab which is mic'd for amplification:

WOOFER MODEL - P22WP

Specifications

Nominal Basket Diameter
8" / 200mm

Impedance
4 ohms

RMS Power Rating
100 Watts

Program Power 200 Watts
Frequency Response
35Hz - 4.0kHz

Voice Coil Diameter
1.5" / 38.1mm

Magnetic Weight 30 oz.

Mounting Information

Overall Diameter
8.75" / 222.25mm

Baffle Cutout Diameter-
7.5" / 190.5mm
No. Of Mounting Holes
6

Net Weight 2.75 lb. / 1.34 kg.

Materials

Basket
Die Cast

Cone
Mineral Polycone

Surround
Butyl Rubber

Magnet Ferrite

Thiele-Small Parameters

Resonant Frequency (fs)
29.5 Hz

Impedance (Re)
5.8 ohms

BL Factor (BL) 10.2
Mechanical Q (Qms)
2.2

Electrical Factor(Qes) .31
Total Q (Qts)
.27

Comp. Equivelant Vol. (Vas)
2.72 ft3 /77 Liters

Voice Coil Overhang (Xmax)
6.0 mm

Surface Area of Cone (Sd) .0235 m2
 

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