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1/4 to SpeakON??

#41
hover said:
I'm curious to the gauge of the wire in this scenario. I'm in no way questioning your experience mind you, I've just never personally ever felt a warm speaker lead / connector.
I always use super heavy duty awg cable.
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I don't know off hand, it was probably a decade ago, but I do remember being surprised to reach down and feel the connector hot when I went to unplug it. These days I use 14 gauge, but then it was probably 18 or so.
 
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#42
Biggest #1 Noob-band move ever...so many of us have done it, i'm not ashamed to admit i took part in it as a teenager..PA head didn't last 2 years)[/QUOTE]
Many years ago, while in high school, our PA amp caught on fire, lots of flame and smoke! Yeah, we learned the hard way.
 
#45
hover said:
Burning, that would surely give me pause too, especially on tube amps. :)
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A dirty or loose connection can do this too. I have an outlet in our bedroom that is 'loose' in that when you plug something in it's not making a solid mechanical join. We use a space heater in the room on particularly cold nights since our flat's heating is ineffective and our room is the worst. One night we melted the plug on the space heater from using that 'loose' wall jack. Too little surface area to allow the current to flow to much resistance, etc.
 
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#47
HolmeBass said:
Eden wasn't selling Speakon cables, they had nothing invested in the testimonial. I think the contact surface in a speakon connection is definitely better than in a 1/4" jack, technology developed for the phone company switch board operators!

Come on, give credit where it is due. Unnecessary condecension does the forum no good, does it?
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I'll give credit where credit is due.
I will give no extra credit to people who hear a difference in power cords.

YMMV though, which is fine.
 
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#48
As an electronics technician in my younger life I learned that any time you feel wiring heating up beyond ambient temperature during use you have discovered a problem in your circuit... properly sized conductors will not heat up due to current flow below a conductors rated amperage.

I too have felt a warmed 1/4" plug on the back of my 1975 SVT after a night of loud playing. In that case however I will be leaving my old SVT stock and just deal with the heat. I often have a box fan circulating air around the back side of my SVT when gigging outside (pretty much the only place I can unwind the thing anymore...)

My newer PA components and SVT 4Pro have Speakons and I have re-cabled everything years ago to use Speakon as my only FOH connector. THIS WEEK I am completing a 4 conductor cable set to reduce the total number of FOH cables by half, however our next gig is at a venue where we will stack the subs in one location to reduce phase variation in the audience, eliminating the 4 conductor cables usefulness (the top boxes and subs will be separated and not stacked on top of one another). I have learned a LOT from TB in the last several years and most of my musician friends are noticing. I am now getting calls to help my buddies to set-up and ring out their PA's before gigs and have converted my last three bands to using a subwoofer/top box (2 way bi-amped) style PA over standard 1-15" boxes with horns on a stick as the FOH. My paycheck now (very slightly) reflects my newfound skill set as well... I make more $$$ as I am more in demand locally, due at least in part to my TB membership.
 
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#49
To adapt the OP's speakon equipped amp to a cab that only has 1/4" phone jacks: Neutrik P/N#: NA4LJX
Amazon.com: Neutrik Speakon-to-TS Female Adapter: Electronics

compact and works fine. I use it when I need to connect my modern amp to my older 210 cab that pre-dates the Speak On connector.

The other advantage that Speak On connectors have other than a indexing locking connector is that they are available in 2 pole and 4 pole versions. While two pole are most common, it is possible with Speak On connectors to Bi-Amp your cabinet and only have one cable connector. Commonly seen in GK RB series heads and cabinets.
 
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#50
Both my electric kettle and vacuum cleaner power cords get hot. They are designed to operate that way. Better if they didn't but they are allowed by the safety agencies to be used.

So it isn't just about the wire gauge, the sheathing has to be considered in any application. Together they contribute to the overall cable rating and the application for which they should be used.
 
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#51
Chef said:
I'll give credit where credit is due.
I will give no extra credit to people who hear a difference in power cords.

YMMV though, which is fine.
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That's ok, but you were the one who brought up power cables, not me. That is something of a canard, hopefully it won't get referenced again in this thread. I brought up speakon connectors handling power better than 1/4" connectors, and then subsequently posted a link verifying they can handle more current, by design, than 1/4" connectors can. So that is due some credit, because that is real, not anecdotal.
 
#53
Hi everyone, i looked in this thread but couldnt find a answer to my question.....i have a new Ampeg head and 6 x 10 cabinet. The head has outputs 2 @ 1/4 inch and 2 speakons. The cabinet also has 2 1/4 inputs and 2 speakon inputs. In the past i have always used 1 speakon or 1/4 connector from head to cabinet.

My question is if i used 2 speakons or 1/4 cables would it help the head deliver power to the cab any better? Instead of 1 cable use 2 ? Anyone tried this ?
 
#55
I feel that the combo socket is just a sop to folks who are resisting change.The biggie for me is that if a phone plug is pulled part way out it becomes shorted. This is very bad for a SS amp that is driving the cabinet. Amps have died from such abuse.

I changed to all Speakon speaker cables years ago and have never been inconveinienced by the move. Fitting a speakon in place of a phone socket is simple. Open the existing hole to 15/16" and drill two 1/8" mounting hole. I use a pop rivet to hold them in place on a plate or screw into the wood if on a cabinet. What was the wire to the tip goes to +1 and the sleeve wire to -1. It's as simple as that. :D
 
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#56
Using two cables to the same cabinet is a thing that I feel should not be done. It's too easy to screw up. Take an amp that has a "stereo" output stage and thus two different signals. Shorting these together by linking them into the same cabinet can blow both channels of the amp.
 
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#57
lz4005 said:
I was told the switchover by manufacturers was in response to EU safety standards.
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This is one of the primary reasons, in order to conform to the EU's Low Voltage Directive.

BasturdBlaster said:
A few times, I have had the raw speaker wire leads come out of the speakon end. It seemed that the set screws were not tight enough when new. After tightening them up, no problem. I do like the ease of working with the speakon connectors but make sure them screws are tight.
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Oh no, no, no. Don't do this. If the connector is assembled properly they will remain tight and secure for many years. This means that the ends are not tinned, and the screw is properly torques to the specified value. I have seen too many housings where the contact carrier groove became distorted from soldering attempts and the contact came loose tearing up the mating connector's contact too. There was a Neutrik whitepaper on this, but I just saw something that showed soldering was ok so it's possible that they changed the housing material. My comments are about the NL-4FC and it's derivations.

mikeyjm2 said:
If you look at the NEC tables for wire ampacity you are good for 14 amps at 18AWG. With 14AWG you are good for 25 amps. Could easily see where 18AWG would heat up with any significant power.
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You can't use the NEC wire tables for this application, the duty cycle factors are completely different. UL allows sizing of audio wiring based on the current at 1/8-rated power (unless the manufacturer requires otherwise). The derating factors are also totally different because the insulation materials are different. There are (IIRC) 26 different NEC ampacity tables depending on the wire type and application, not counting the UL tables. Generally, because of the duty cycle differences, power loss (in dB) is used to size speaker cables. For a 5' speaker cable used in a typical bass amp application, there is no need to use greater than 14 gauge (probably even 16 gauge) for 1000 watts at 4 ohms. 500 watts into 4 ohms would be just fine with 18 gauge for the reasons I mentioned.
 
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#58
agedhorse said:
You can't use the NEC wire tables for this application, the duty cycle factors are completely different. UL allows sizing of audio wiring based on the current at 1/8-rated power (unless the manufacturer requires otherwise). The derating factors are also totally different because the insulation materials are different. There are (IIRC) 26 different NEC ampacity tables depending on the wire type and application, not counting the UL tables. Generally, because of the duty cycle differences, power loss (in dB) is used to size speaker cables. For a 5' speaker cable used in a typical bass amp application, there is no need to use greater than 14 gauge (probably even 16 gauge) for 1000 watts at 4 ohms. 500 watts into 4 ohms would be just fine with 18 gauge for the reasons I mentioned.
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Good info thanks. What I posted was the only NEC table I have from a field reference handbook, and you are correct that it is not aimed at audio applications, but rather at powering industrial equipment.
 
#59
The most common table is 310-16, but there are many others that apply depending on wire type and application.
 
#60
Chef said:
Some folks hear a difference in a $500 power cord too.
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Chef said:
I'll give credit where credit is due.
I will give no extra credit to people who hear a difference in power cords.

YMMV though, which is fine.
Click to expand...

I'm sure I could hear a difference in tone between a $12 and $500 power cord. That is...the difference in the tone of my wife's voice as she shouted, "You paid how much for a wall cord?"

M. M. :)
 
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