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1 Hour Chuck Rainey Lesson?

#42
Hey mike,
I teach, When I was living in NJ, I charged $50-60/hour, I know live in Portland Oregon and charge $40/hr. Certain places have a higher cost of living. Maybe in your neck of the woods the rates are cheaper. Chuck could easily have doubled that price and it would be worth it. Comparing Dan Pliskow to Chuck Rainey is ridiculous. I'm not knocking Dan, He might be a great musician and teacher. It's like having a golf lesson from the state champion at your local golf pro shop or taking a lesson from Tiger Woods. You probably can learn plenty from either of them but the experience isn't the same. I've never talked to Chuck Rainey, He might be a horrible teacher. But I guarantee he would have insights to share that very few living musicians can offer. I might not need or want to study with him longterm, but his credentials are up there.
What do you do for a living? what's an hour of your time worth? As stated before many other professions charge more money per hour. I'm only asking this because most (pro) musicians who earn their living gigging and teaching wouldn't make such a comment.
peace
 
#43
FWIW-
I have never met Chuck Rainey, either.
(I did actually e-mail him 1X when there was a disagreement over who played bass on Cheryl Lynn's "To Be Real". He replied back with a wealth of info about that particular session. Still, there were the unbelievers here). ;)

Anyway-
Everything about his columns in those '70s Guitar Player mags + the early Bass Player mags + his books...all well written, easy-to-understand, lucid, etc.
IMO, Rainey would be an excellent teacher.

...but I do get your point: A great player doesn't always = a great teacher.
 
#44
basssalad said:
Hey mike,
I teach, When I was living in NJ, I charged $50-60/hour, I know live in Portland Oregon and charge $40/hr. Certain places have a higher cost of living. Maybe in your neck of the woods the rates are cheaper. Chuck could easily have doubled that price and it would be worth it. Comparing Dan Pliskow to Chuck Rainey is ridiculous. I'm not knocking Dan, He might be a great musician and teacher. It's like having a golf lesson from the state champion at your local golf pro shop or taking a lesson from Tiger Woods. You probably can learn plenty from either of them but the experience isn't the same. I've never talked to Chuck Rainey, He might be a horrible teacher. But I guarantee he would have insights to share that very few living musicians can offer. I might not need or want to study with him longterm, but his credentials are up there.
What do you do for a living? what's an hour of your time worth? As stated before many other professions charge more money per hour. I'm only asking this because most (pro) musicians who earn their living gigging and teaching wouldn't make such a comment.
peace
Click to expand...

Well, saying it's ridiculous is so ar out of line it's, well, ridiculous.
Dan (and Iknow you don't know him) has been on staff at WSU for something like 25+ years. As an educator. Local at a pro shop...hardly.
Granted, Churck Rainey has played on countless recordings, Dan with the Detroit Symphony Orchestra and countless Jazz greats who have come through Detroit and need the "go to guy". His choices for not touring and recording can only be answered by him, but I know he and his wife and children are VERY tight, so that may ba a factor. Again, only he could answer that, it's just my opinion.

And if he is a horrible teacher, as you stated he could be (some how both you and I don't think he is) how pissed would you be for wasting $85 for that hour.
Actually for you it could be $125, because you, as a teacher (are you a "pro"?) could have booked a lesson at that time.

The wisdom of countless sessions vs. the wisdom of an equal amount of time as an educator has to be weighed by the person shelling out his hard earned money.
If it's wisdom of sessions up the wazoo your looking for, then $85 is a bargan.
Wisdom of more years than most of us have been playing and or living as being a university educator (as well as private lessons) is what your looking for, well again, define your bargan.
I took lessons from Dan for a while. I think my first half dozen didn't include my bass at all.

When I was teaching- $20 half hour. My gear wouldn't and still doesn't leave my house for under $150 a night as a pick-up gig. And yes a lot of "pro" musicians, such as myself being a "pro" at one point,(by what defination you determine what a "pro" is) would make such a comment.
They also would say as do I, IMO, if he can get it, more power to him.
As stated, his credentials speak for themselves.

And I've been to Chicago many times. The cost of living there is pretty close to Detroit. It's only 4 hours from here. Played there and partied there.

I think because many may be slightly timid about the same opinion as mine, are staying out of this thread for fear of a flame war that could erupt.

But IMO, the comparrison of Tiger Woods to some local golf pro, with out knowing the latter, is as you said ridiculous.

Heck, I would maybe take ONE lesson. For a few resons- he played with Steely Dan, one of my all time fav bands which introduced me to him really, and also to say, yeah, I hung out with him for an hour.
But how much of that wisdom are you going to absorb and retain from that hour? Unless you go to him on a regular basis.

If a student came to you and took only one lesson. Do you think it would be effective? And don't give me the "Well it's Chuck Rainey" line either. Just strickly from a lesson perspecive.

Now a master class for a few hours with him may be a different story.
 
#45
MikeBass said:
Don't get me wrong here, I LOVE Chuck Rainey.
And have a world of respect for the man and could only imagine to be able to do what he does.

But 1 hour. $85??
Umm....no.
Click to expand...

Interesting in that I was thinking just the opposite. I get paid more than that per hour doing my silly corporate/private gigs!

I get what you are saying that it's a lot of money for a 'one off' with a teacher though.

This again goes to how undervalued pop/jazz musician's are in our society. It's amazing to me that one of the greats on his instrument is only getting that amount when a schmo like me was charging $35 an hour 20 years ago to teach (probably $60 in today's dollars):rollno:

This again shows how being a professional musician who can make enough cash to live a 'middle class' lifestyle is rapidly disappearing.

Sorry for the OT rant:)
 
#46
Kjung,
I couldn't agree with you more!!!
To answer mike's question, Yes I'm a Professional musician. My point was not to belittle Dan Pliskow. You are missing my point. What is an hour of your time worth? As a Working musician, there are only a limited amount of hours a day to teach, and Gig. It is getting harder to earn a living as a musician because people belittle what we do! They feel it's a hobby! How much would you pay a personal trainer at a gym? Your Auto Mechanic etc.
Some people have music degrees and or major performance experience, isn't that worth something?
Some people have day gigs where that's where their income comes from. They don't mind working for low wages. They also generally don't practice 4 plus hours a day and aren't asked to support grammy winning acts.
Taking 1 lesson with the right player (teacher) can spark something new into your playing! It may take awhile to absorb the material. It may be a spiritual thing, who knows but hangin' with someone who has been around so many creative artists is worth something to me.
peace:bassist:
 
#47
JimK said:
Rainey has been one of my favourites for quite awhile...that said-
...$85 for a good plumber when you really need him is not that much. Trust me.
;)

Rainey used to write, like, the ONLY Bass-oriented column you could find during the '70s (Guitar Player mag). Lotta info in those one-page "Workshops".
Bass Player's early issues also had columns/editorials by Rainey. More good stuff.
Click to expand...

****, are these archived anywhere?

I don't know what I would study with Chuck. I would pay 85 dollars just to listen to him read the phone book. I'm almost certain just absorbing his essence through listening to his voice would make me a better player!
 
#49
basssalad said:
Kjung,
I couldn't agree with you more!!!
To answer mike's question, Yes I'm a Professional musician. My point was not to belittle Dan Pliskow. You are missing my point. What is an hour of your time worth? As a Working musician, there are only a limited amount of hours a day to teach, and Gig. It is getting harder to earn a living as a musician because people belittle what we do! They feel it's a hobby! How much would you pay a personal trainer at a gym? Your Auto Mechanic etc.
Some people have music degrees and or major performance experience, isn't that worth something?
Some people have day gigs where that's where their income comes from. They don't mind working for low wages. They also generally don't practice 4 plus hours a day and aren't asked to support grammy winning acts.
Taking 1 lesson with the right player (teacher) can spark something new into your playing! It may take awhile to absorb the material. It may be a spiritual thing, who knows but hangin' with someone who has been around so many creative artists is worth something to me.
peace:bassist:
Click to expand...

I understand where you're coming from totally.
I don't think you quite grasp my point though.
Given the choice I would rather take a series of lessons from some one with like Dan, that as you stated, being a "professional musician" and not having a lot of dough generally, to taking one one that may or may not benefit.

I would love to sit with him for an hour. I would do it once, like I said above.
 
#50
I'd actually probably spend most of it yakking about mutual acquaintances... I've got some family friends at Berklee that know him and some other people that do too. But I mostly wanna hear about him from him. How he started and such.

God, I'm so unproductive...
 
#52
xlows said:
I'd actually probably spend most of it yakking about mutual acquaintances... I've got some family friends at Berklee that know him and some other people that do too. But I mostly wanna hear about him from him. How he started and such.

God, I'm so unproductive...
Click to expand...

Yeah to hear from him about him would be great, but there was a great interview by Will Lee of Chuck Rainey a few years back in BP.
Answered a few of those questions. And more.

I look at it like this sorta:
You take one lesson from Tiger Woods. You going to ask him how he got started and how he won PGA tourrneys a number of times??
And go home and absorb the stories?!?
No, Tiger, show me your swing and apply it to mine (which sucks!).
BTW here's Tiger's swing- a thing of beauty:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

I would hope that you would sit with Chuck and say "OK listen, this is what I do"- play a bit.
And then have him break it down so you can rebuild it better.

But to sit with him and just get stories, talk about his experences and "absorb" what ever you would talk about, well, he lives in the Chicago area I assume, so find his next local gig (if he does them) or go buy the man a drink and shoot the crap with him.
 
#54
If I had the extra 800 bucks right now I would have a plane ticket to new york.
I was talking with my drummer last night about wanting to go and he says wow it sounds like one of those mastercard commercials.
700 plane ticket to NY
85 for an hour lesson with Chuck Rainey
PRICELESS
But I spent 700 bucks having my wisdom teeth ripped out this morning.
Does CR ever do any lessons in Cali?
I would rather give up more cash for like a two six hour day sessions.
 
#56
It would be interesting to have a private lesson with one of the bass greats, but how much could be covered in a one hour lesson to be very beneficial? A teacher needs to get to know you and your playing to better evaluate how to help you. It seems that that would take several lessons spaced over a period of time. For most players anyway.

For a pro who had very specific questions and areas to work on it might be beneficial, but for the rest of us, it would just be a good fun (and expensive!) experience.
 
#57
I happened to stumble over the conversations about how much Bass teachers are charging for lessons and was surprised to hear my name mentioned, however I think it is a very controversial subject and everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I've made my living playing upright bass since 1951 and worked six nights a week in the bars and also quite a bit of time doing live TV shows. I played in Jazz groups in Detroit all that time and was lucky enough to back up Wes Montgomery, Milt Jackson, Wynton Kelly, Art Farmer, Junior Mance, Roy Eldridge and a million others. I loved every minute of it and I'm still out there playing at 74.
In 1980 I was asked by Matt Michaels, the Director of Wayne State's Jazz Study Program to teach bass for him and I have been on staff there for 29 years.
Yes, I charge $25 because I love to teach and feel it is important to pass on what I have learned in the Bass business to my students. I try to improve their lives by showing them how to play better, teach them about culture, music and its responsibilities and about life in general. I have been so fortunate in whom I have worked with and what I have learned that I think of the $25 I charge as the payback to life.
Dan
 
#58
Doc - I also got to spend time learning from Mr. Rainey at Victor Wooten's camp.
It was a privilege and a great learning experience.
The man knows more about how to get and keep work than most, that's for sure. That's one area that he's got huge, huge knowledge, and it shows in his career, and a fertile one to explore.
From a playing perspective - I think you'd narrow your spectrum too much if you focused on doublestops. May I suggest that you expand it (keeping your original thought) to how he approaches creating bass parts for different situations, asking for examples?
 
#59
Chuck is a top shelf class act!
He is a LEGEND and for $85 an hour I would pay to watch him chew gum.
ALSO teaching at Bass Emporium is Ed Friedland who also is a top shelf guy!
Chuck is a last of a dying breed of bassists that mattered to the music we enjoyed and currently enjoy.
You can say the pulse of most modern music has flowed through his finger tips to your radio.
He doesn't belong teaching lessons as much as being in the hall of fame, and as a side bonus he is willing to set aside an hour or two to help you one on one... to me that is cheap and a no brainer.
 
#60
Pliskow said:
I happened to stumble over the conversations about how much Bass teachers are charging for lessons and was surprised to hear my name mentioned, however I think it is a very controversial subject and everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I've made my living playing upright bass since 1951 and worked six nights a week in the bars and also quite a bit of time doing live TV shows. I played in Jazz groups in Detroit all that time and was lucky enough to back up Wes Montgomery, Milt Jackson, Wynton Kelly, Art Farmer, Junior Mance, Roy Eldridge and a million others. I loved every minute of it and I'm still out there playing at 74.
In 1980 I was asked by Matt Michaels, the Director of Wayne State's Jazz Study Program to teach bass for him and I have been on staff there for 29 years.
Yes, I charge $25 because I love to teach and feel it is important to pass on what I have learned in the Bass business to my students. I try to improve their lives by showing them how to play better, teach them about culture, music and its responsibilities and about life in general. I have been so fortunate in whom I have worked with and what I have learned that I think of the $25 I charge as the payback to life.
Dan
Click to expand...

Thanks Dan for posting that because sometime there is more to life than maximising your monetary profits.

People can and do charge whatever they want, need or believe they can get. My feeling is that people that enjoy teaching tend not to charge a lot, people that charge a lot tend not to enjoy teaching as much as those that don't. You as the individual have to make your own determination on what it's worth to you and what you can get in an hour that's going to improve the way that you play or think about music which is different than spending time with a bass icon that may or may not deliver the pearl of wisdom that will change your approach and outlook to the instrument.
 

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