10 inch speaker suggestions

[Sundogue]

I want to point out that this description is about as good as asking for a meal that "tastes good." Everyone has a different idea of the vague terms "warm" and "round."

What, you don't know what "warm" and "round" sounds like?

I dig it though. But there is no way I like the sound of "cool" or "square". Which is kind of interesting because in a different era, "cool" and "square" were opposites.

Actually, "pillowy" and "soft" are more accurate...or are they? Are we still talking about bass tone? I forget.

 

[shoot-r]

Look, we all would like everything to be ideal, but we live in a less than ideal world.

The guy has a cabinet he'd like to throw some speakers in. This is not a big a deal as everyone is making it out to be. There are a variety of choices in speakers that he could put in there and have it work for him, if he can find the cab volume and port tuning (or maybe modify the port if possible).

If he finds the right speakers for that cabinet, he can do it and more than likely it will sound just as good as most of the crap you'll find in a commercially available cab anyway.

Is it going to be ideal? How many commercially available cabs are? How about trying to help him instead?

I have a 410 cab that currently has no speakers in it. I know damn well I can load it with some new speakers by knowing the cabinet's internal volume, porting and the T/S parameters of whatever speakers that will match that cab. Will it be perfect? Show me a cab that is. And if you can show me the perfect cab, I'd still bet that someone will still think it sounds like crap regardless of it's measured output over the entire bass range. No cab is perfect for everyone. And it really doesn't matter how "perfect" a cab is as far as it's measured response. The only response worth measuring is the bass player's response to how it sounds to him. And I would bet 99% of all the bass players playing today are quite happy with less than ideal cabs (and that includes professional touring players) because most use commercial cabs. I'm playing through two 115's I built myself and I would bet they don't measure up to the cab guru's standards here. But you know what? I love them better than every commercial cab I've tried over the last 30 years, so I don't really give a rip what anyone else thinks of them.

Heck, Roger Glover got his signature sound from playing through some Marshall cabs that had some ripped speakers in it (unbeknown to him at the time). Think that was ideal? Some guys love cabs with only 15's (or only 18's) and no mid-range drivers or tweeters and so are missing some higher frequencies. Is that ideal?

The OP only wanted some info on some 10" speakers to put in his existing cab. Some feel he'd be better off using the cab as firewood. I'd be happy to help him if he can get us the internal volume of the cab and the size of the port.

+1,000,000,000...

 

[jacotosh]

Okay since it seems like I'm getting more questions than answers. I will try to be more specific. I haven't got the cab yet. So, I'm starting from scratch. I'm looking at getting a 4X10 cabinet from fliptops.net. It is a sealed cabinet with the speakers sealed off in pairs like an SVT cab. So more or less what I'm looking for is half of a SVT 8X10. They offer a couple of speaker options Eminence Legend, Eminence Delta, Eminence Deltalites, and the Electro Harmonix SVT10, to name a few. They don't list the internal volume of the cabs on the website, but since the cabs are custom made I assume they will take the specific speaker's properties into consideration.

Just wondering if anyone has tried or heard these speakers and what their opinions are. Also if anyone has any other 10" speakers, new or vintage, that they like.
They also build custom cabs, so if I find speakers I really like I could have the cab designed to fit the speakers. I don't like the new Ampeg 4X10s, they have the hf horn that I don't need and wouldn't use.

Just looking for some general opinions on speakers that would maybe sound similar to the 70's SVTs.

 

[Sundogue]

I don't think the Legends have a high enough SPL (92dB) for what you want.

I'm not familiar enough with the others to tell you without looking up their T/S specs.

I know some others here will know what works best in a sealed cab. Anyone know what speakers are in the SVT 810?

 

[jacotosh]

I think the original SVT 810 had CTS speakers with alnico magnets. They are probably hard to come by/too expensive for my needs. I also think their power rating isn't high enough for my purposes either. I believe the 1st generation cabs were only rated at 200watts total for all 8 10s. Not sure what they used afterwards. Anyone? They probably went ceramic magnets.

 

[Sundogue]

I think the original SVT 810 had CTS speakers with alnico magnets. They are probably hard to come by/too expensive for my needs. I also think their power rating isn't high enough for my purposes either. I believe the 1st generation cabs were only rated at 200watts total for all 8 10s. Not sure what they used afterwards. Anyone? They probably went ceramic magnets.

Instead of looking at power ratings alone, consider the sensitivity of the speakers. The more efficient a speaker cab is the less power you need to get the same SPL.

A cab that can only handle 200 watts but has a SPL rating of 102dB will be far louder than a 500 watt cab that can only put out 98dB. That's a 5dB increase with less power needed.

 

[gerryjazzman]

Okay since it seems like I'm getting more questions than answers. I will try to be more specific. I haven't got the cab yet. So, I'm starting from scratch. I'm looking at getting a 4X10 cabinet from fliptops.net. It is a sealed cabinet with the speakers sealed off in pairs like an SVT cab. So more or less what I'm looking for is half of a SVT 8X10. They offer a couple of speaker options Eminence Legend, Eminence Delta, Eminence Deltalites, and the Electro Harmonix SVT10, to name a few. They don't list the internal volume of the cabs on the website, but since the cabs are custom made I assume they will take the specific speaker's properties into consideration.

Just wondering if anyone has tried or heard these speakers and what their opinions are. Also if anyone has any other 10" speakers, new or vintage, that they like.
They also build custom cabs, so if I find speakers I really like I could have the cab designed to fit the speakers. I don't like the new Ampeg 4X10s, they have the hf horn that I don't need and wouldn't use.

Just looking for some general opinions on speakers that would maybe sound similar to the 70's SVTs.

So if I'm understanding correctly, what they are going to build for you is essentially half an SVT 8x10? In that case, they ought to be able to give you some guidance as to what some of their options would sound like. Do you like the sound of an SVT 8x10, in which case you can probably cop that tone pretty well with "half" of one, albeit with a lower SPL. In that case, they should be able to recommend suitable SVT replacement speakers. The one I would shy away from in your list is the Deltalites (I expect those are the Deltalite II 2510's). They are good speakers (I have used them myself), but they have a rising mid/hi-mid response that will sound more middy than you might like based on your tonal preferences. Don't have any experience with the others on your list but there have been several threads in recent months about SVT replacement speakers which may be helpful to you. For example:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=483142&highlight=svt+replacement+speakers

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=466589&highlight=svt+replacement+speakers

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=443230&highlight=svt+replacement+speakers

I'm sure there are others. At least they make for interesting reading as folks argu... I mean, discuss various options .

 

[billfitzmaurice]

but since the cabs are custom made I assume they will take the specific speaker's properties into consideration.

Sealed cabs require some very specific driver specs, and most of the drivers you mention don't have them. And Legend is an entire line of drivers, not just one. Perhaps the confusion is yours, which is understandable. If not...
BTW, in the Eminence line this is the one that comes closest to their first generation SVT driver, impedance aside. [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[gr8fulhiker]

I want to point out that this description is about as good as asking for a meal that "tastes good." Everyone has a different idea of the vague terms "warm" and "round."

That's the funniest thing I've heard all week! Next time I eat out I'm going to ask for something that 'tastes good'.

 

[rbonner]

The Legend BP102-4 and the BP102-8 speakers are a big bottom end bass speaker. The "Proprietary" -4 version is used in the SVT-410HLF in series parallel for 4 OHMs.

The HLF is a ported design. It has great bottom end, the speaker is all done by 2000Hz. The specs on the Legend say it is OK for a sealed design. The magnet is rear ported however. I am going to test 4 of these in one half of one of my SVT 810 cabs very soon. I will just need to tear apart my 410HLF and put them in a stripped 810 I have sitting here.

If all works out I will probably load this 810 with a full set of legends. If not I will get a new set of originals.

The SVT810 uses a 32 ohm speaker and 8 of them in parallel. Fliptops sells an Electro-Harmonix replacement version of this speaker which is a close approximation of the AMPEG UNIT. Eminence has a rule that they won't sell an exact speaker to another customer... SO how close you get is up to them.

All around the 810 unit is a bit of a cheap speaker. They do have more upper response, they claim 5KHz, but it is more like 4KHz realistically. By pushing these Cheap speakers you get the AMPEG SOUND... Just like pushing a Marshall cab with guitar gets you the Marshall sound.

I've been wanting to compare these speakers in a sealed cab for quite a while... If it stays raining maybe I'll mess with it tomorrow. If it clears up I need to work on my 79 Superglide, I need to have it together to take to the Sturgis Rally next month.

BOB

 

[Sundogue]

The Legend BP102-4 and the BP102-8 speakers are a big bottom end bass speaker. The "Proprietary" -4 version is used in the SVT-410HLF in series parallel for 4 OHMs.

The HLF is a ported design. It has great bottom end, the speaker is all done by 2000Hz. The specs on the Legend say it is OK for a sealed design. The magnet is rear ported however. I am going to test 4 of these in one half of one of my SVT 810 cabs very soon. I will just need to tear apart my 410HLF and put them in a stripped 810 I have sitting here.

If all works out I will probably load this 810 with a full set of legends. If not I will get a new set of originals.

The SVT810 uses a 32 ohm speaker and 8 of them in parallel. Fliptops sells an Electro-Harmonix replacement version of this speaker which is a close approximation of the AMPEG UNIT. Eminence has a rule that they won't sell an exact speaker to another customer... SO how close you get is up to them.

All around the 810 unit is a bit of a cheap speaker. They do have more upper response, they claim 5KHz, but it is more like 4KHz realistically. By pushing these Cheap speakers you get the AMPEG SOUND... Just like pushing a Marshall cab with guitar gets you the Marshall sound.

I've been wanting to compare these speakers in a sealed cab for quite a while... If it stays raining maybe I'll mess with it tomorrow. If it clears up I need to work on my 79 Superglide, I need to have it together to take to the Sturgis Rally next month.

BOB

I have BP102 speakers. I've used them in a couple of 210 cabs I built. Their sensitivity rating is only 92dB. While they can handle a boatload of power for a 10" and have fairly decent xmax, they are very quiet speakers.

One of my 115 neo cabs loaded with a single Eminence C2515 rated at 99dB is about 4 times as loud as one of my 210's loaded with the BP102's. And that is even taking into account that both types of cabs were built for high volume instead going for deep lows.

My two 115's will blow away a 410 loaded with the BP102's...by a large margin. Now eight of them in a single cab? Well, you might see some gain in volume with that, but really the BP102's are not a very sensitive speaker at all.

 

[rbonner]

I have BP102 speakers. I've used them in a couple of 210 cabs I built. Their sensitivity rating is only 92dB. While they can handle a boatload of power for a 10" and have fairly decent xmax, they are very quiet speakers.

One of my 115 neo cabs loaded with a single Eminence C2515 rated at 99dB is about 4 times as loud as one of my 210's loaded with the BP102's. And that is even taking into account that both types of cabs were built for high volume instead going for deep lows.

My two 115's will blow away a 410 loaded with the BP102's...by a large margin. Now eight of them in a single cab? Well, you might see some gain in volume with that, but really the BP102's are not a very sensitive speaker at all.

I think we went through this in that other thread just this morning.

I have an SVT-410HLF and when hitting that with one channel of a 4PRO there's nothing quiet about it. My pant leg whips around and the drapes on the front windows blow like crazy.

If I was to stack up TWO HLF's instead of the ONE I own, It would easily without a second thought blast more air than an SVT-810e parked right next to it. The problem is we are comparing apples to oranges... 4 speakers to 8 and no DB meter.

NOW

There is a difference between ported cabs and sealed cabs. By sealing up the drivers you put air pressure control on the back of the cone.

When playing a similar cab APPLES to APPLES the sealed cab will be punchy, crisp with very tight controlled bass.

The ported cab if constructed properly will have a looser but commanding bass sound. This is why guys sometimes say the HLF is muddy, boomy, loose... Because it is.

SO yes putting a Legend in a sealed box it will be QUIETER than sticking it in a ported box. Nothing more power up to its voice coil limit wouldn't cure.

I will have more details as soon as I can compare the APPLES to APPLES mode here.

Its dry today so I will be out working on the bike instead of screwing with the amp however. I would already be out there, but just bought some parts on eBay for the bike.

BOB