12" Speaker Recommendation

[Al Kraft]

You might try contacting partsexpress.com or fullcompass.com and see what lower price 12's they would recommend for that size cabinet. Measure the inside dimensions and the size and length of the port. You should be able to find something for <$100 which would work well. Maybe not perfect but I would not go over that price. I had decent success with a Dayton Audio.

You may also check in the Rumble forum, there were a lot of posts about upgrade speakers for the Rumble 100 which is just a newer version of the 75.

+1...great suggestions IMO!

 

[jthisdell]

Fender Rumble V3 100 speaker up-grade ?

 

[agedhorse]

I know nothing about the brand or that speaker. Short on specs, but I don't think an 800w power rating and 98db sensitivity (±2dB?) are credible at that price.

If you look at the specs, it's 800 watts PEAK, which translates to 200 watts RMS (though that too may be wishful thinking depending on their definitions). The sensitivity is not specified as average, therefore could be "peak" sensitivity which could be the RMS/average sensitivity multiplied by 4 (adding 6dB to the average number, or 92dB/1W/1M), or it could be based on the peak in the frequency response curve, or it could be totally made up.

Whenever a driver is short on specs, that's a general indicator of being short on performance too.

 

[agedhorse]

Now that all the speculating has been done, let's look at this from an experienced perspective...

First of all, small magnets by themselves mean very little even though large magnets have been marketed for years as "better". In fact, magnet size by itself is not terribly important without considering all the other factors in the performance equations that govern the real world performance of a speaker.

What matters is how much force is applied to the voice coil that lies within the magnetic circuit. When designing an OEM driver such as the one used in the Rumble, the designer knows the maximum power that will be used and also the low frequency extension limits that the amp has. These two factors help define how much axial displacement will be required, and in the case of this speaker (and those used in similar applications), the necessary Xmax may be as low as 2mm which then allows for additional internal design features that can then improve the performance in the real world. For example, in lower Xmax applications with limited power, the gap height can become shorter, the cross-sectional area of the magentic return structure smaller and the VC diameter smaller, which increases the flux density, which increases the axial force on the VC. Now, the VC height can be proportionally shorter with the same Xmax, all of which increases efficiency.

How powerful does the motor need to be? It depends, but the generally accepted answer is "powerful enough". Motor power needed is a factor of how heavy the cone is (moving mass), how stiff the compliance is and the resistance/compliance of the air mass being moved. On high powered speakers, the cones are generally heavier, the compliance stiffer and the air mass greater, therefore require higher motor strength. This is all for equivalent electro-acoustic damping, and for everything else held constant, a more powerful motor has higher damping, BUT higher damping may not be desired (can become too tight or too dry and un-interesting) and a more appropriate damping may be lower and require a lower powered motor.

*** Notice that I am using the term motor strength rather than magnet weight because magnet weight is not part of the equation and there are ways to vary motor strength independent of magnet weight. ***

All of these things factor into a balancing act, a set of inter-related trade-offs that result in a wide array of performance differences, and each designer has their on preferred solutions based on their experience as well as the most important requirements for each product they design.

Regarding 4 ohm versus 8 ohm, as a generality when making the trade offs above, it's often more difficult to get efficiency as high on a 4 ohm driver than an 8 ohm driver, and in some cases the 4 ohm driver's lower efficiency can be significantly below that of the equivalent 8 ohm driver's efficiency. That's why a 4 ohm driver may not be any better or provide ANY greater performance even though it will receive greater power.

 

[agedhorse]

I just looked in the warehouse and in fact I do have a suitable OEM driver for your amp (an amp that was very similar) that was designed around the process that I described above. If you are in Canada, the shipping would be a challenge, but if you are in the US or have a US shipping address it's a viable solution for less than what's been discussed. PM me if you are interested.

 

[Al Kraft]

I just looked in the warehouse and in fact I do have a suitable OEM driver for your amp (an amp that was very similar) that was designed around the process that I described above. If you are in Canada, the shipping would be a challenge, but if you are in the US or have a US shipping address it's a viable solution for less than what's been discussed. PM me if you are interested.

IMO here's the best bet for an affordable, low risk, happy ending to the problem cited in the OP.

 

[Smokey P]

If you can find one the celestion bn12-300S has been a revelation for me.

 

[THRobinson]

Fender Rumble V3 100 speaker up-grade ?

When I first realized that the speaker was the issue, this was the first thing I found when I Googled

Upgrading Fender Rumble 75

Which is what lead me to the Eminence S2012... OP also mentioned they lined the inside of the cabinet, but someone else who did the same mentioned lining some of the inside etc... basically boiled down to using 1/2" dampening foam on the sides and top of the inside, not the back or bottom.

Being in Canada (Ontario) is oddly limiting... it's weird how many cheap options are in the USA and not here, and yet we're both in N.America.

The one that gets me most is on forums for other stuff, how often people say 'just go to Harbor Freight'... that place sounds like a magical land of 'stuff'.

Again, it was a gamble... I sorta won/lost... seems the head part is fine, cabinet is mint, and came with a foot switch and wheels... I'm not in a band, I know 2 songs on bass (well, use to) so not looking for the biggest/best just something decent really. But... unless something used pops up, it looks like Eminence S2012 is the winner.

 

[THRobinson]

If you can find one the celestion bn12-300S has been a revelation for me.

Looks good, but outta budget. About $75 more than the Eminence.

Unless, again I find used... but been searching the past week on Marketplace/Kijiji for used and surprisingly very very little. Some 10", which is why I debated an adapter ring... otherwise all guitar or car speakers.

 

[Smokey P]

Looks good, but outta budget. About $75 more than the Eminence.

Unless, again I find used... but been searching the past week on Marketplace/Kijiji for used and surprisingly very very little. Some 10", which is why I debated an adapter ring... otherwise all guitar or car speakers.

Ah sorry didn’t see the budget, good luck finding a speaker that works for you!

 

[THRobinson]

Ah sorry didn’t see the budget, good luck finding a speaker that works for you!

Ya... again, I was trying to find something cheap to play on. I already spent $60 on this, which is why debated if made sense to repair/upgrade? or just bail and get something else.

Someone mentioned bail and get a better amp because the Rumble isn't very good, but when asked what's better in the same price range, they fell silent.

 

[agedhorse]

Harbor Freight... a few good values and some amazingly priced junk. You have to know what you are looking at.

 

[silky smoove]

Harbor Freight... a few good values and some amazingly priced junk. You have to know what you are looking at.

Quite right. It's an excellent place to get cheap movers blankets and gloves for working in the yard. Anything more involved from Harbor Freight should always be met with a fair measure of skepticism.

 

[bodgiebass]

Rumbles are ok. My opinion is just get any cheap 12" and stick it in. It won't be ideal response but since you are looking at reasonably low volume practice/home it won't really matter. Then you will have a working practice amp and can wait for a more ideal speaker to pop up on the market some day in the future. Any port in a storm.

 

[THRobinson]

What specs should I be looking for in a speaker anyways?

12", 8ohm, more than 75w RMS... what Frequency Range?

I saw a pair of used guitar cab speakers for sale cheap, but I think won't work because of the frequency range. Came out of a Bugera cabinet.


Turbosound TS-12W350/8W Woofer
Size: 12
Impedance: 8 Ohm
Power output: 350 Watt RMS / 1400 Watt peak
Frequency range: 61 - 3000 Hz
Maximum sound pressure level: 95 dB (1 W / 1 m)
Die-cast aluminium frame
Mounting hole diameter: 299 mm (11.77")
Overall diameter: 316 mm (12.44")
Weight: 6.1 kg

 

[agedhorse]

What specs should I be looking for in a speaker anyways? [\quote]

It depends on a lot of factors, none of the specs you listed are particularly important or useful for a bass guitar speaker.

 

[Al Kraft]

What specs should I be looking for in a speaker anyways?

To get a feel for what goes into speaker selection and cabinet design (and it is a system that you are talking about) take a look at the Eminence site or Google T/S parameters. I wish there was a simple answer to your question. However, matching a speaker to an existing enclosure and having it perform satisfactorily for you is a trade-off balancing act between many parameters and in some cases as much art as engineering/science.

You are starting with the enclosure already designed and little opportunity to do any kind of significant modification...that sets some boundaries you need to work within. With that physical data in hand, a speaker manufacturer and/or competent reseller should be able to help you narrow down to the right product(s).

I seem to recall an earlier post (#25) where you were offered an option by an expert engineer in this field. That option would be my first choice and I think I indicated that in a follow-on post. Respectfully, you're not likely to do better given your starting starting point which led you to ask the question above. It's great that you are seeking knowledge, but unless you are very lucky, it will be hard to noodle your way through highly interrelated specs to find a better option than what has been offered.

 

[THRobinson]

@Al Kraft well, offered but also as they said, in the USA. Shipping will cost probably as much as the speaker if not more.

As far as specs go, I don't see what the issue is..
I know speakers are designed for X cubic feet, and ported or not, etc... But in general, I'm sure there's a basic set of specs to look at like frequency response range... Not low enough, too high, etc...

Rest of the specs made sense... Don't want the RMS wattage lower than the cabs max wattage. Designed for 8ohm so stick with 8ohm. Hole is 12", so grabbing a 12".

If I know a few specs to keep an eye open for, I can have more luck finding something used that might work. If I know from the basic specs it's not going to work then I don't have to waste the time searching the make/model for more specs like enclosure details.

 

[silky smoove]

But in general, I'm sure there's a basic set of specs

It was referenced earlier. These specs are Thielle-Small, but if you don’t know what they mean or how they’re implemented you’ll potentially cause yourself more problems than solutions.

 

[agedhorse]

It was referenced earlier. These specs are Thielle-Small, but if you don’t know what they mean or how they’re implemented you’ll potentially cause yourself more problems than solutions.

Or, if he doesn't care.