12" Speaker Recommendation

[Al Kraft]

I still like their response though... it's like saying I've never tried chocolate ice cream before but I know for a fact vanilla is better.

I would not assume a company like Eminence hasn't examined every speaker out there made by other companies to get a sense for what they're competing against. Most top tier manufacturers know exactly what their competition is supplying and what those other company's customers like about their products. When intel on the competition is easy to get with minimal work or cost, very few companies will opt to simply build blindly and claim their stuff is the best. I could always be wrong, but would be surprised if I was.

 

[agedhorse]

I would not assume a company like Eminence hasn't examined every speaker out there made by other companies to get a sense for what they're competing against. Most top tier manufacturers know exactly what their competition is supplying and what those other company's customers like about their products. When intel on the competition is easy to get with minimal work or cost, very few companies will opt to simply build blindly and claim their stuff is the best. I could always be wrong, but would be surprised if I was.

Agreed, the industry is a lot more knowledgeable that the OP gives credit.

 

[ctmullins]

Basslite. Stick it in the box and play.

We’re not talking about a gigging situation, right? We’re talking about practicing at bedroom levels. It’s not nearly as critical to match driver with box at bedroom levels.

Buy the Basslite. Mount it. Then you can move on to what really matters: practicing and improving as a player.

 

[THRobinson]

Agreed, the industry is a lot more knowledgeable that the OP gives credit.

Yeah, but many times it's just some student answering emails and rather than admit they don't know, they BS an answer. I worked for a while answering emails and phone inquiries with 20 other people, and quite often had to fix situations because of people who did that all the time. Anyone and everyone who has worked in support will know this happens constantly. I'm not saying this is the case, but I am saying that my guess is as good as yours. I don't give enough credit, you give too much.

 

[silky smoove]

but I am saying that my guess is as good as yours

I’d argue that given Andy’s background and profession I’m guessing he knows many of the folks at Eminence. I would suggest that his guess has a higher likelihood of being correct than yours without a comparable MI industry background.

 

[THRobinson]

I’d argue that given Andy’s background and profession I’m guessing he knows many of the folks at Eminence. I would suggest that his guess has a higher likelihood of being correct than yours without a comparable MI industry background.

Unless he knows the guy answering emails... no. It's 50/50.

 

[agedhorse]

Unless he knows the guy answering emails... no. It's 50/50.

There is information that I can't share because it doesn't belong to me (it belongs to my former employer)and it's not my call.

You always have the option to do the math yourself and try to make something else work.

 

[THRobinson]

There is information that I can't share because it doesn't belong to me (it belongs to my former employer)and it's not my call.

You always have the option to do the math yourself and try to make something else work.

I think we're getting 2 different points crossed with one another.

My point was, we don't know if the guy who responded to the email was an informed tech, or just some part-timer making a guess. I've worked doing that job and I know some people who did that just to avoid looking up info or having an email go back-and-forth. You knowing more than me about speakers doesn't change the fact that neither of knows the guy who responded.

Which was the point of post #84 which you liked.

 

[silky smoove]

Unless he knows the guy answering emails... no. It's 50/50.

Right, but there’s a non-trivial chance that he does.

 

[THRobinson]

Right, but there’s a non-trivial chance that he does.

Andy... Do you know the guy or no?

That'll settle the irrelevant dispute of a passing GD remark.

 

[Roxbororob]

Eminence dont have students answering their emails. All the technical inquiries used to answered by Anthony Lucas and now they are generally answered by Matthew Marcum. Even if it was not Matthew, they are not in the snake oil business, you can trust their answer.

Edit: Also you can access the eminence specs on the Q Components website (or the Eminence website), these include predicted performance on suggested cabinet volumes. You can you use these against your measured volume to get an "idea" of how well a given Eminence speaker might perform in you cab. It is, after all, just going to be a home practice amp right?

 

[Al Kraft]

Eminence dont have students answering their emails. All the technical inquiries used to answered by Anthony Lucas and now they are generally answered by Matthew Marcum. Even if it was not Matthew, they are not in the snake oil business, you can trust their answer.

Edit: Also you can access the eminence specs on the Q Components website (or the Eminence website), these include predicted performance on suggested cabinet volumes. You can you use these against your measured volume to get an "idea" of how well a given Eminence speaker might perform in you cab. It is, after all, just going to be a home practice amp right?

I always found those "tech talk" papers Big Tony would put together on various speaker design topics incredibly useful and technically sound.

 

[agedhorse]

Andy... Do you know the guy or no?

That'll settle the irrelevant dispute of a passing GD remark.

Yes, I know them all at Eminence.

It's very possible (likely) that the S2012 will outperform the stock speaker with the correct tuning. It's also a MUCH more expensive speaker.

 

[Al Kraft]

Yes, I know them all.

...and the number of people who are surprised to hear that could easily be counted on one hand even if the person counting was missing several fingers...

 

[agedhorse]

Andy... Do you know the guy or no?

That'll settle the irrelevant dispute of a passing GD remark.

Let me interject something... you are pretty new here and seem to be looking for an argument with just about everybody who has tried to help you.

If you already know the answer and are just looking for folks to agree with you, to reinforce your beliefs that you already know the right answer, this may not be the right place for you. It's somewhat disrespectful to be so dismissive to those who are trying to help and might know more than you about this (this applies to 4 or 5 of the guys providing info that I know). I ask that you re-think your approach... do you want accurate information or do you want a "yeah man, cool man, awesome speaker dude" response? The honest, accurate nature of most discussions here are really quite valuable and helpful if you keep an open mind.

 

[THRobinson]

My argument isn't with the knowledge/advice given, it's with the lack of listening to my point.

Telling me I need to look at all the specs and in-depth details of performance, means nothing to me. I don't have an audible reference point to base anything off of.

No matter how many specs I look at, I don't know if it's going to sound like how I want or not. I don't know if spec A will mean it's too much bass, or if spec B means too tight sounding. Plus cheaper speakers (because Eminence/Celestion cost 3x more than the amp) and used (old and/or unknown sources) don't have any specs beyond the basic size/watts/ohms/freq response. So I have no in-depth specs to look at regardless.

But, when I say that, I'm apparently looking to argue.

I just wanted to learn how to play the bass and do it on the cheap. Just wanted a cheap speaker that wouldn't crap out because it couldn't handle the low notes.

 

[agedhorse]

IMO, part of learning how to play bass is learning about how the basics of the gear works.

Everything we have been saying and suggesting is so that the speaker CAN handle the low notes without crapping out, but it's not us that's not listening. The BassLite S2012 is very likely to do well in that cabinet based on my experience with the driver, BUT it's expensive. All the general experience that I have with the off brand, cheapo drivers that you keep mentioning has been either pretty bad, awful or dreadful. This doesn't mean that there aren't exceptions, but you need to have the real specs and do the math to determine if the performance is better than dreadful, awful or just pretty bad. I can't guess without the REAL specs (not marketing drivel or simply made up numbers), TS parameters.

 

[THRobinson]

Edit: Also you can access the eminence specs on the Q Components website (or the Eminence website), these include predicted performance on suggested cabinet volumes. You can you use these against your measured volume to get an "idea" of how well a given Eminence speaker might perform in you cab. It is, after all, just going to be a home practice amp right?

"an "idea" of how well a given Eminence speaker might perform in your cab" is where I'm lost. Beyond the specs saying it will or won't work well in the cab, the rest of the specs are a mystery to me. I can't read the numbers and know if the sound will be too punch, low, high, treble, etc... that's why I was looking for basics like what's the difference between a 12" Guitar and 12" Bass speaker. Both can be 12", 8ohm... but seems (in general) the Bass speakers have a higher wattage and lower freq response. Thought maybe there's be a general rule-of-thumb regarding wattage and a general ballpark of freq response to aim for.

 

[THRobinson]

but you need to have the real specs and do the math to determine if the performance is better than dreadful, awful or just pretty bad. I can't guess without the REAL specs (not marketing drivel or simply made up numbers), TS parameters.

That's the issue... cheap seems to mean no real specs, or made up numbers. Or... 3x the cost of the amp for well, really, only what... 3 or 4 options? The few online shops in Canada when I filter for bass speakers 12" 8ohm, at most I have 4 speakers. $130-$225CAD.

My main worry is if I spend THAT much on a speaker, I may end up with a cab that doesn't sound as good as a bass amp of another brand/model of the same price. Same size Bassman is about 2x the price... can't just be the speaker I wouldn't think.

 

[agedhorse]

That's the issue... cheap seems to mean no real specs, or made up numbers. Or... 3x the cost of the amp for well, really, only what... 3 or 4 options? The few online shops in Canada when I filter for bass speakers 12" 8ohm, at most I have 4 speakers. $130-$225CAD.

My main worry is if I spend THAT much on a speaker, I may end up with a cab that doesn't sound as good as a bass amp of another brand/model of the same price. Same size Bassman is about 2x the price... can't just be the speaker I wouldn't think.

Then you shouldn’t attempt to do this task if you can’t comprehend the advice you have been given. There are plenty of ways to screw this up, there is no way of knowing how well something will work without going through the math AND learning about how speakers work.

If you aren’t willing to do the work, learn about this subject, don’t do it.