12" Speaker Recommendation

[12bass]

Picking a speaker based on stated frequency response is a bit like choosing a vehicle based on how fast it can go. If you need to haul concrete blocks, a Ferrari is probably not a better choice than a 1/2 ton. The point being that there are a variety of more important specifications that matter based upon the application, like how well the driver matches the volume and tuning of the enclosure, efficiency, linear excursion, etc... Lots of 12" drivers will make sound, if that's all that matters, but most will be sub-optimal in this particular application. That's what others are trying to get across above.

 

[THRobinson]

Picking a speaker based on stated frequency response is a bit like choosing a vehicle based on how fast it can go. If you need to haul concrete blocks, a Ferrari is probably not a better choice than a 1/2 ton. The point being that there are a variety of more important specifications that matter based upon the application, like how well the driver matches the volume and tuning of the enclosure, efficiency, linear excursion, etc... Lots of 12" drivers will make sound, if that's all that matters, but most will be sub-optimal in this particular application. That's what others are trying to get across above.

Yes, and as I've tried to get across a few times as well, I understand that. But... limited budget, and for many speakers of lower price, limited specs, so I kinda have to go by the basics.

Most people buying cars buy one based on type of car, fit/comfortable, fuel economy and price. And they're happy with the results. Most don't check out the gear ratio in the differential, engine displacement, and other important performance factors.

Plus, as stated a few times throughout the thread, what 1 person likes, another might not... so even delving into all the numerous specs of a speaker and choosing one based on that, you still might not like it. Even with the stock speaker, some people said they liked the Rumble amps, some said they suck.

I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't.

 

[Al Kraft]

Most people buying cars buy one based on type of car, fit/comfortable, fuel economy and price. And they're happy with the results. Most don't check out the gear ratio in the differential, engine displacement, and other important performance factors.

Oddly enough as an engineer that's the stuff I look at first...but what I wanted to share is that I think your analogy is a little off. You already own the car and are not planning to replace your engine, transmission, differential, whatever with the OEM part or possibly even something with OEM specs. You want to know if you can substitute different parts and if the car will still run okay even if the specs don't match the original stuff.

Hopefully you can see that this is a tougher problem to give an answer for. When substituting in parts with somewhat different specs the answer is almost always "it depends". Just because a Ford engine will fit easily in a Chevy engine bay doesn't mean the transmission ratios will be optimally placed to work well/seamlessly with that engine's torque and HP curves. In the end, it's a "total system design product" that you experience, and you are redoing something that was system engineered without fully revisiting the relevant trades and their weighted values in final performance and hoping for a good outcome.

You may well be perfectly happy with the result of putting in any 12", 8 Ohm, "more Watts than 75" rated speaker. To recall your car analogy, just recognize that a car has thousands of specs that very few people would have any idea are even considered let alone are important, that when properly balanced produce the form, fit and function/performance that attracts your attention.

I get that you're frustrated with some of our answers, but even when substituting in parts that are arguably much better than original parts you don't always get an outcome that's better than where you started. I think if you can identify some speakers you can buy there are folks who could give you a sense of whether you're in "should be okay/relatively safe" territory.

 

[12bass]

... When substituting in parts with somewhat different specs the answer is almost always "it depends". Just because a Ford engine will fit easily in a Chevy engine bay doesn't mean the transmission ratios will be optimally placed to work well/seamlessly with that engine's torque and HP curves. In the end, it's a "total system design product" that you experience, and you are redoing something that was system engineered without fully revisiting the relevant trades and their weighted values in final performance and hoping for a good outcome.

This is the key issue. In engineering terms, driver selection must be made with respect to system parameters. How big is the enclosure? Is it sealed or ported? What is the tuning frequency? What is the application? How much power can it handle and in what frequency range? A 12" car subwoofer driver will make sound in free air, but it won't produce smooth, deep bass, and it probably won't sound good in a bass guitar cabinet because bass guitar has upper overtones that it was not designed to reproduce, and such a cabinet is probably not correctly tuned for it either.

People have been trying to steer the OP in the right direction, to inform him about some of the complexities of proper driver selection. Almost any 12" woofer will "work", but only a few will work well. From an engineer's perspective, there is expert knowledge regarding more and less optimal solutions, and a strong desire to point someone away from making sub-optimal choices. That represents an attempt to help, not hinder...

 

[Wild Rice Chris]

In different terms, the stated low end frequency response and power handling of a driver is nearly meaningless without the context of the cabinet.

 

[byacey]

Where are you located in Ontario? I would look on Kijiji and see what is available used in that price range. Yorkville/Traynor amps or Peavey are brands that are very durable but sell for reasonable amounts.

Q components is in Waterloo. They carry the full Eminence line up, as well as Beyma, B&C and others.

 

[byacey]

I was looking something like this... less than 1/3 the price of the Eminence

https://www.amazon.ca/Technical-Pro-wf12-1-12-Inch-Subwoofer/dp/B004UMA342/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2XH8UOWIZTB1J&keywords=12"+subwoofer&qid=1649915846&refinements=p_36:12035761011&rnid=12035759011&s=electronics&sprefix=12+subwoofer,aps,94&sr=1-2

Just the fact that they list Output power at 800W would make me inclined to think that there is nothing honest in the specs for this driver. It's likely Chinese bargain basement junk targeted at the unknowing buyer.

 

[Al Kraft]

Just the fact that they list Output power at 800W would make me inclined to think that there is nothing honest in the specs for this driver. It's likely Chinese bargain basement junk targeted at the unknowing buyer.

The 2 reviews of the speaker on Amazon seem to substantiate your conclusion.

 

[Doufuss]

OP you're going at this backwards. Call Eminence, tell them what you have, and ask them if they have something similar. Failing that, you have the combo cab, right? Measure that for interior volume. (Exclude the port) Go to Eminence's website, and look at the lineup of bass guitar speakers. Choose one that will work with the volume of your cabinet. Chances are pretty good it's going to work tuning wise.

Edit - Eminence did in fact build that driver to Fender's specs for that cab. If anybody knows what to use, it's them. Also, I know from personal experience that they are very helpful.

 

[THRobinson]

OP you're going at this backwards. Call Eminence, tell them what you have, and ask them if they have something similar. Failing that, you have the combo cab, right? Measure that for interior volume. (Exclude the port) Go to Eminence's website, and look at the lineup of bass guitar speakers. Choose one that will work with the volume of your cabinet. Chances are pretty good it's going to work tuning wise.

Edit - Eminence did in fact build that driver to Fender's specs for that cab. If anybody knows what to use, it's them. Also, I know from personal experience that they are very helpful.

Well, thing is, even with all the specs etc. it boils down to personal preference. The Eminence S2012 in this forum has been mentioned many times as being used to upgrade the Rumble75, few threads for it, I linked to one earlier, and seems to be a pretty unanimous/positive outcome. I'll take first-hand experience over specs any day. There was also a thread about lining the cab with sound dampening foam and looked like 1/2" foam on the two sides and top was an improvement as well.

That said, in my budget I only have about 3 options (new) anyways.

I'll message Eminence and double check. Downside is, even if Eminence knows that a different brand would be better they wouldn't tell you (obviously) so of the 2 speakers they have in my budget, I guarantee they'll say one or both are great upgrades. Unlikely they'd say neither.

Downside of the bass I guess... if it were the guitar, I'd probably have 10+ options from each company so their recommendations would carry a bit more weight. When you have only 2 options and they're trying to make a sale... well...

 

[Al Kraft]

Downside is, even if Eminence knows that a different brand would be better they wouldn't tell you (obviously) so of the 2 speakers they have in my budget, I guarantee they'll say one or both are great upgrades. Unlikely they'd say neither.

You might be surprised. Credible designers and manufacturers will usually tell you what outcome you can expect with their products...and if you're looking for something different, they will suggest you look elsewhere. I'm not going to offer names, but we have plenty of examples of manufacturers and designers who participate in this forum every day who often suggest that a person may be happier looking at another company's product.

If I was on a budget, knew others had found success (and all described it the same way) with an Eminence product, and Eminence seconded that recommendation, that would be "job done" for me. This is a 75 Watt broken, used combo you're repairing. I will give you 100% assurance right now that no upgrade to the speaker (regardless of price) is going to get you remarkably game-changing performance that is orders of magnitude beyond what a brand new OEM speaker would provide.

To go back to your car analogy, you have a broken Toyota Corolla, limited dollars to spend on a used engine, and are looking for a set of simple specs you can use to find the least expensive used non-OEM engine that will get you Ferrari performance. Respectfully, this is making less and less sense to me...perhaps I'm just not understanding what you're trying to do, because I've seen excellent suggestions and help in this thread (from world experts no less) at least 5 or 10 times.

Please accept my apology if that sounds negative, I'm just not seeing what you're after.

 

[THRobinson]

I got what I was after... now I'm just having people tell me I don't listen or not taking advice or understanding, despite having said I listened and do understand at least 5-10 times.

Car analogy wasn't mine, that was 12bass... that being said, I never said I wanted to replace a Toyota engine to get Ferarri performance, I was after information of what else would fit to get the car running half decent, that way I could look at the scrap yard and quickly see my options. My Toyota Corolla may have come with a 3.1l engine, but a cheaper Toyota Camry 2.8l might still work well enough for my purposes. Unlikely with Toyota, but if we were talking '70s muscle cars like Ford/Chev, the analogy works just fine. In any case, "reductio ad absurdum" I think is the term for where you're taking this analogy.

Anyways... I understand what's being said, I understand the information being offered. I have a few private chats with people who get what I'm saying and have a game plan in place.

 

[Crawforde]

I’m in the exact opposite circumstance as the OP and am consistently my options.
I have a 12” driver (8 ohm neo 12” for a scout) and I can’t find specs.
I’m looking for a box to put it in to get a decent sound. right now I think my easiest option is to try a simplex, or f-deck box and see what happens.
DIY isn’t always the easiest route, but it can be frustrating. Uh I mean rewarding.

 

[THRobinson]

I’m in the exact opposite circumstance as the OP and am consistently my options.
I have a 12” driver (8 ohm neo 12” for a scout) and I can’t find specs.
I’m looking for a box to put it in to get a decent sound. right now I think my easiest option is to try a simplex, or f-deck box and see what happens.
DIY isn’t always the easiest route, but it can be frustrating. Uh I mean rewarding.

Ya, my issue is when I find cheap 12" options, I have 0 specs except for what's printed on the speaker, or sometimes an old website page where it's just size, wattage, ohms and freq response... I mean, not everything available is a $150 modern USA/CAN built speaker, some are 20yrs old, generic, or made in China and the full specs simply are not there. Some people are just selling a speaker and no idea where it came from so have no information. It's a gamble with regards to enclosure size and if designed to be ported or not. That's why I just wanted to know some basics, which I now have. It's a $60 amp. I just want something to learn/practice with.

 

[agedhorse]

I’m in the exact opposite circumstance as the OP and am consistently my options.
I have a 12” driver (8 ohm neo 12” for a scout) and I can’t find specs.
I’m looking for a box to put it in to get a decent sound. right now I think my easiest option is to try a simplex, or f-deck box and see what happens.
DIY isn’t always the easiest route, but it can be frustrating. Uh I mean rewarding.

Actually, if it's a factory Scout 8 ohm driver, you would be way ahead to seel it to somebody who needs one since they are no longer available.

 

[Crawforde]

It was a gift. I’d feel weird selling it, so building a box around it or trading it are my options.
I really wanted to build myself a lightweight cab, but I’d want a decent design, and shop time….

 

[THRobinson]

Wait, I though Eminence made the Rumble75 speaker? Or designed it? In any case, got a response back today from Eminence and well, bit odd... in the sense that they didn't make nor have specs for the original speaker, but know for certain that theirs is better.

Thanks for considering and supporting Eminence speaker. You will hard pressed to find a better replacement option than the basslite s2012. It’s perfect for that cab. Unfortunately we didn’t make the original driver so there’s not much I can tell you about it other than it’s not as good as the basslite s2012.

 

[agedhorse]

It was a gift. I’d feel weird selling it, so building a box around it or trading it are my options.
I really wanted to build myself a lightweight cab, but I’d want a decent design, and shop time….

It’s not a traditional driver, it’s designed around a passive radiator and doesn’t perform well in a ported cabinet. Sell it and use the money to buy a more suitable driver.

 

[Doufuss]

Wait, I though Eminence made the Rumble75 speaker? Or designed it? In any case, got a response back today from Eminence and well, bit odd... in the sense that they didn't make nor have specs for the original speaker, but know for certain that theirs is better.

Thanks for considering and supporting Eminence speaker. You will hard pressed to find a better replacement option than the basslite s2012. It’s perfect for that cab. Unfortunately we didn’t make the original driver so there’s not much I can tell you about it other than it’s not as good as the basslite s2012.

My mistake. Eminence has been supplying Fender with bass guitar and guitar drivers for as long as I can remember so I made an ass-umption. Please, carry on and ignore me.

 

[THRobinson]

My mistake. Eminence has been supplying Fender with bass guitar and guitar drivers for as long as I can remember so I made an ass-umption. Please, carry on and ignore me.

It's ok, man... we'll let it slide.

I still like their response though... it's like saying I've never tried chocolate ice cream before but I know for a fact vanilla is better.

I figured I'd get a sales-person type response, which is fine, as I mentioned there are enough threads on here with a Rumble 75 using the S2012 that I'm sure it's gonna be ok.

Shame, Marketplace all week has had used 10" and 15" bass speakers, and 12" guitar speakers. No 12" bass. Sigh

In the meanwhile, I dismantled my peavey Bandit 112 Silverstripe. Pots needed cleaned and figured I'd dismantle the entire thing and clean everything, repaint the black screws and corners etc. Got a very accurate measurement of everything as well in case I want to build it outta better wood. Just particle board and the front panel is oddly thin for something holding the speaker in place.