I've never looked at an old SVT schematic, but did that tech swap in a 6550 into half of a class A/B stage, and leave the 6146 in there??? If so, that clown needs to have his soldering license revoked.
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1969 SVT restoration project
- Thread starter JimmyM
- Start date
Yes, as usual, the bean counters have stepped in and said enough is enough. I still have to pay for the head repair and a tube relay and I'm already close to a grand in expenses without it, so something has to give. That means I won't be doing the cabinet restoration.
I've thought about it, and really, it doesn't make any sense to do it now anyway. I have no plans to sell it for a good 3 or more years and I know I'm going to want to gig with it more than I think I will. Plus I'm going to look into renting it out for live and studio around here. Got a good friend with a popular backline rental company and I might be able to sub it out to him and make a little spare cash and not even have to move it. If I recover the cab now, it's just going to get damaged soon after I start using it. This vinyl that's on there now looks like crap, but at least it's something to protect the bare wood. It'll still sound the same regardless of what's on it, and it looks good enough from a distance. I'll just slap some generic grillcloth on it and it'll work until I get ready to sell it.
Hey, the important stuff is getting done, and that's what counts.
And now for a question: I had originally thought all Ampeg logos like the one on my cab were white and black. But Fliptops sells a vintage replica that's black and silver and says it's for early SVT's. Did the original SVT's come with that black and silver logo? It's too hard for me to tell in pictures I've seen.
I've thought about it, and really, it doesn't make any sense to do it now anyway. I have no plans to sell it for a good 3 or more years and I know I'm going to want to gig with it more than I think I will. Plus I'm going to look into renting it out for live and studio around here. Got a good friend with a popular backline rental company and I might be able to sub it out to him and make a little spare cash and not even have to move it. If I recover the cab now, it's just going to get damaged soon after I start using it. This vinyl that's on there now looks like crap, but at least it's something to protect the bare wood. It'll still sound the same regardless of what's on it, and it looks good enough from a distance. I'll just slap some generic grillcloth on it and it'll work until I get ready to sell it.
Hey, the important stuff is getting done, and that's what counts.
And now for a question: I had originally thought all Ampeg logos like the one on my cab were white and black. But Fliptops sells a vintage replica that's black and silver and says it's for early SVT's. Did the original SVT's come with that black and silver logo? It's too hard for me to tell in pictures I've seen.
The early ones had a metal black/silver logo. In the mid or late 70's they switched over to a black plastic/white logo.
OK, I just placed a couple orders for parts and grillcloth, which with shipping will cost approx. $70. So we add that to the $929.31 (let's round it off to $930), and I'm at exactly $1000 + the repair bill on the head. So yay, I am now officially over-budget!
I just reread this thread, and you know something? I am a complete dunce. I can't believe how much I agonized over every little piece of this process like a girl. Can't help it. I'm a musician, not a tech. Ask me what to play over changes and I can tell you. Amps...I plug them in and turn them on. I know how to make an amp sound good, and I know a smattering of basics about tubes and the basic technology behind amps and speakers, but I can't even solder, let alone name all the parts of an amp or speaker. Science is so interesting to me, yet I can't understand a lick of it. And I have learned so much about amps over the past two weeks getting ready for this resto, and I still don't understand most of it. So I hope everyone understands I had good reason for agonizing over this stuff like a big wuss. I don't know anything about it!
I just reread this thread, and you know something? I am a complete dunce. I can't believe how much I agonized over every little piece of this process like a girl. Can't help it. I'm a musician, not a tech. Ask me what to play over changes and I can tell you. Amps...I plug them in and turn them on. I know how to make an amp sound good, and I know a smattering of basics about tubes and the basic technology behind amps and speakers, but I can't even solder, let alone name all the parts of an amp or speaker. Science is so interesting to me, yet I can't understand a lick of it. And I have learned so much about amps over the past two weeks getting ready for this resto, and I still don't understand most of it. So I hope everyone understands I had good reason for agonizing over this stuff like a big wuss. I don't know anything about it!
The earliest SVTs had no logos at all on the amp heads. They came in around '71 or '72, I think.
I was referring to the logo on the speaker cab, but thanks. It would be very easy to assume that I didn't know there was no logo plate on the head, but that was one thing I actually knew 
And speaking of the logo, I just stripped all the paint off of it, and here's a pic of what it looked like when I bought it, save for the tiny flecks of white in the lettering I'll get with a needle later. In the first pic of it earlier in this thread, I had painted it white with Testor's paint and colored the black parts in with a magic marker. Then I was informed that these logos were actually black and shiny silver. Well, the shiny part of this logo's ship has sailed a long time ago along with most of the black. So mask it off and use a little shot of some good semi-gloss or flat enamal spraypaint and it should make it look much tidier, if not shinier.
But wait...isn't the goal of restoring a vintage piece like this to let it be as it is and let the character of the original piece shine through and only replace or modify what is missing or necessary? If I wanted neat and tidy I could order a new one from Bruce when he gets more. Still, it really does look crappy, doesn't it? Anyone have an original in better shape that they want to sell?
Nah, this logo came with the cab, and this logo will remain on it. But I'm going to put it up to a vote whether to spruce it up with black paint or leave it. I know I'll like looking at it better sprayed, and that's all I'll comment about it. Not like it's an invasive mod that can't ever be replaced, and not that it really matters one way or the other, but logos mean a lot to me because it's the one part of the amp I actually understand how it works, and I want to do what's right for the cab.
So I will do what the majority thinks I should do...leave it or spray it?
But wait...isn't the goal of restoring a vintage piece like this to let it be as it is and let the character of the original piece shine through and only replace or modify what is missing or necessary? If I wanted neat and tidy I could order a new one from Bruce when he gets more. Still, it really does look crappy, doesn't it? Anyone have an original in better shape that they want to sell?
Nah, this logo came with the cab, and this logo will remain on it. But I'm going to put it up to a vote whether to spruce it up with black paint or leave it. I know I'll like looking at it better sprayed, and that's all I'll comment about it. Not like it's an invasive mod that can't ever be replaced, and not that it really matters one way or the other, but logos mean a lot to me because it's the one part of the amp I actually understand how it works, and I want to do what's right for the cab.
So I will do what the majority thinks I should do...leave it or spray it?
Attachments
Oh, I don't know... Maybe have just that one little part that is just as it was originally. A token if you will. To what the unit was before you restored it.
I would brush it with satin black if I were going to paint it. In the grooves of course.
Maybe run it over a polishing wheel until you can see your face in it then do the black. So many ideas.
I would brush it with satin black if I were going to paint it. In the grooves of course.
Maybe run it over a polishing wheel until you can see your face in it then do the black. So many ideas.
Polishing it...hmm, that never crossed my mind. I have a high speed hand buffer for doing cars. I should try that. If I could get a shine back to it, I definitely would paint the rest black.
Not being an expert at it, though, maybe you could recommend the right compounds so I don't waste a lot of time. I imagine I'd have to start with something pretty rough at first, right?
Not being an expert at it, though, maybe you could recommend the right compounds so I don't waste a lot of time. I imagine I'd have to start with something pretty rough at first, right?
Psycho, don't forget the earliest Eminence square-ceramic-magnet drivers used after the CTS alnicos until the late 70's. I think when MTI started the SVT again in the early 80's, that's when Eminence made the round ceramic magnet version. Ever SVT cab I've seen from '74 to '79 has the eminence square mags.
I wish Ted Weber was still reconing - I had all eight speakers in my '76 cab reconed by him for a total of $360 plus shipping just about 4 or 5 years ago. Jimmy, have you actually had the recones done already? I know of another place that will do it for fairly cheap and do it correctly. A lot of places won't demag/clean/remag the basket, which needs to be done IMO.
Good thread. Here are my 'semi-restored' SVT's:
PS - Jimmy, I got metal logos for the outer cabs as seen above and polished them - they came out looking great, but they're starting to tarnish. Ya might want to hose 'em down with a clear coat after you polish.
The power tube section is two sections of either three 6146B's or 6550's in series. 3 tubes are one side in series and the other three are the other side of the push pull circuit. I'm not going to look it up but if the voltages were all the same it would not be a big problem but I'm sure they can't be exactly the same. Was not a very good idea. I once bought an SVT in Lima Peru with 6 6L6's in it with no modifications, the bias was all the way up on one side and off on the other, it actually worked that way and none of the tubes glowed cherry red, these tubes had all been taken from Fender amps as you could see the bear trap marks on the bases. I changed it back to 6550's (and fixed a bunch of other things) of course as soon as I realized it hadn't been modified for 6L6's. You'd be amazed at how amps can be butchered (especially old Ampegs) and still work.
I thought they came when they started making the towel rack cabs? I have 76 and 77 heads and I took them off, I think the heads look better without them myself.
The recones haven't been done already but they're at the shop. I would get the info from you and thanks for offering it, but one of the guys who does the reconing is a very good friend of mine and I'd hate to pull them out on him. I've dealt with this place for years and years, and they always do an excellent job. I once got into a discussion about the process with the owner and he was telling me all the shortcuts people take when reconing and why you have to be really careful when looking for a speaker repair shop. So I trust them implicitly to do the job right. Every speaker I've taken to them came back sounding awesome and I've never had a problem. So yeah, I might have taken a big hit pricewise (not convinced of that though...two reconers quoted me the same price), but I will get quality, that I'm sure. So tell us about your SVT's. They look like beauties!
BTW, Happy New Year, everyone!
Now, the last step of the repair process is getting the SVT's tube relay. I have to bring Birddog my Super on Wednesday, and I want to get the info about the tube relay ready for him and get that going. Which brings me to another question:
Amperite makes one tube relay called the G TDR ( http://www.amperite.com/Uploads/g.PDF ), and apparently you choose the voltage, whether you want it to delay on startup or shutdown, how long the delay is, and type of socket (octal or 9-pin miniature style). For example, a 10NO30 is 10 volts, normally open (which I think is what you use when you want a delay on startup), delay of 30 seconds, and octal. And a 20C60T would be 20 volts, closed (I think this means the delay happens when you turn it off...someone spot me on that), 60 second delay, and 9-pin (blank for octal, T for 9 pin).
So I am assuming that I would want a 115NO30 for my SVT. 115 volts, normally open, 30 second delay, and an octal socket. Would I be correct in that assumption? I hope so, because vacuumtubesinc.com has them for $22, as opposed to the $144 I found on the web, and that would be a welcome break if I could do that. Here's a link to the relay page on their website:
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So did I do good trying to figure this out on my own?
Hey Jimmy, looks like your movin' along on the resto project. You, and a few other readers, may remember my questions of the SVT cab that I asked last week. I did purchase it and will be doing some of the same things that you are. Mine is a slant cab/towell rack with the CTS speakers. First, my vote on the cab logo is to paint/polish to look as good as possible without replacing, IF, AND ONLY IF, other parts of the cab look somewhat the same. You don't want everything else to be new and the logo to look real worn. It would then fit the old saying of sticking out like a sore thumb. I've restored many classic cars, mostly Corvettes, and a few other brands of amps and cab, and find this to be true. Sometimes you can blend old with new to look good, but often times not. I've also run into the budget deal. Always seems to be something else to do/buy as things roll along. Now, for me. I need the tolex covering, grill cloth, logo and a couple of other things for my project. What sources have you found and why did you go with whomever you went with on these items? Also, maybe you or some of the other "in the know" folks can advise on the speaker jack plate on the cab. When the previous owner hooked it up for me to hear it, he said something about he had it wired to use in stereo, top 4-10s together and the other 4-10s together. I think he ran a short cord from the left bottom plug to the right bottom plug and then ran the amp plug to one of the 2 top plugs. It ended up working all 8-10s in that configeration for my test session. Did he do some wiring changes, or is how he had it a possibility with factory wiring and plate? I just want it the way it's supposed to be originally. Thanks. Big "O"
Your first stop should be www.fliptops.net. They carry many replacement parts for Ampeg stuff, as well as building their own replica B series cabs. They're out of cab logos at the moment, though.
I ordered a generic grillcloth from www.marshallparts.com. I think they have Ampeg grillcloth. There are other places you can find that sell tolex and grill with a Google search. However, the Fliptops guy knows his stuff and has sourced out the most suitable replacement tolex and grillcloth already (early SVT tolex isn't being made anymore apparently, but he's found one that's as close to it as it gets), so you might could save some money elsewhere but if you don't feel like shopping around, his prices aren't out of line.
Good point about the context. I'm not using actual Ampeg grillcloth until I actually get ready to sell it, and the cheap vinyl on the cab is pretty messed up. So yeah, a shiny nice logo would probably stick out like a sore thumb. And I've actually grown to like how it looks all discolored and dulled over the past couple days.
I ordered a generic grillcloth from www.marshallparts.com. I think they have Ampeg grillcloth. There are other places you can find that sell tolex and grill with a Google search. However, the Fliptops guy knows his stuff and has sourced out the most suitable replacement tolex and grillcloth already (early SVT tolex isn't being made anymore apparently, but he's found one that's as close to it as it gets), so you might could save some money elsewhere but if you don't feel like shopping around, his prices aren't out of line.
Good point about the context. I'm not using actual Ampeg grillcloth until I actually get ready to sell it, and the cheap vinyl on the cab is pretty messed up. So yeah, a shiny nice logo would probably stick out like a sore thumb. And I've actually grown to like how it looks all discolored and dulled over the past couple days.
JimmyM - in the world of relays & contacts, normally open (N/O) or normally closed (N/C) refer to the de-energised state of the relay.
So a N/O timed relay would be open circuit until the timer elapsed and would then close. As soon as power to the relay was lost, it would return to its de-energised state.
(And obviously vice-versa for a N/C timer relay).
So a N/O timed relay would be open circuit until the timer elapsed and would then close. As soon as power to the relay was lost, it would return to its de-energised state.
(And obviously vice-versa for a N/C timer relay).
He had to do some wiring changes, they are supposed to be all wired in parallel one to the other and then out to one jack., they are 32 ohm speakers, you should have two 8 ohm sections I would imagine if he just separated the top 4 from the bottom 4. You will have to take a least two speakers out in front of the extra jacks to fix it. You would have to run the wires from one of the extra jacks to the other extra jack internally or just take them out and hook the two wires together if he hasn't really messed it up.
