19mm EBMM 5 string: fact / fiction?

[spade2you]

One can argue that the Stingray Special was a huge upgrade and improvement. EBMM significantly modified the sonic character of the bass to make it more Fenderlike when the the player wants that sound. Most importantly, EBMM took complaints about excess weight to heart. Now, a 8.5-9.5lb Stingray is not a unicorn. Those were huge changes that were greatly appreciated by Stingray fans.
Of course, wider string spacing does not seem likely for all of the reasons we have already discussed.

I still remember when my local shop had an anniversary model about 10 or so years ago. They jokingly handed me a 5 string and it had to have been 13lbs+. My Conklin 6 string is about 12lbs and a pretty big bass. The EB body wood must have had density like concrete.

Nonetheless, the Stingray Special has some nice enhancements. I have become a sucker for roasted maple and other roasted/torrified woods when available.

 

[Johnny Alien]

Best to also include that 2 week deadline.

View attachment 4071510Is this guy going to sell 125 units total?

Way more! Again their guitars sell way more than the basses. The guitar forums love that design and there are lots of fans of the player who's signature model it is. Guitar players are traditional but not quite as much as bass players. The St. Vincent model is also strange but it sell very well.

This forum is underestimating how many actual real world bass players care about this issue. That's how forums work.

 

[spade2you]

Way more! Again their guitars sell way more than the basses. The guitar forums love that design and there are lots of fans of the player who's signature model it is. Guitar players are traditional but not quite as much as bass players. The St. Vincent model is also strange but it sell very well.

This forum is underestimating how many actual real world bass players care about this issue. That's how forums work.

Say WHAT now? Have you met guitarists?

The St. Vincent model is basically like all of the other guitars in the lineup, but with the benefit of crappy ergos. Everyone has a crush on her.

I'm not the kind of guy who makes predictions because I'm usually wrong. The Mariposa is probably going to be canned within a year or two. Other than a unique body shape, doesn't really offer much that's different.

As for 19mm, it's one of those things that spoil many of us AFTER you try it. If you've never tried it, it's easy to claim we're all too damn fussy. Like many, I started on narrow 5-6 string basses because that was the norm.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Say WHAT now? Have you met guitarists?

The St. Vincent model is basically like all of the other guitars in the lineup, but with the benefit of crappy ergos. Everyone has a crush on her.

I'm not the kind of guy who makes predictions because I'm usually wrong. The Mariposa is probably going to be canned within a year or two. Other than a unique body shape, doesn't really offer much that's different.

As for 19mm, it's one of those things that spoil many of us AFTER you try it. If you've never tried it, it's easy to claim we're all too damn fussy. Like many, I started on narrow 5-6 string basses because that was the norm.

I know I came to appreciate wide spacing after playing narrow spaced basses for years. I still play narrow spaced basses, but I really appreciate 18 or 19mm spacing.

 

[N4860]

Say WHAT now? Have you met guitarists?

The St. Vincent model is basically like all of the other guitars in the lineup, but with the benefit of crappy ergos. Everyone has a crush on her.

I'm not the kind of guy who makes predictions because I'm usually wrong. The Mariposa is probably going to be canned within a year or two. Other than a unique body shape, doesn't really offer much that's different.

As for 19mm, it's one of those things that spoil many of us AFTER you try it. If you've never tried it, it's easy to claim we're all too damn fussy. Like many, I started on narrow 5-6 string basses because that was the norm.

Is the Mariposa not the signature for the guitar player from Mars Volta? I could be wrong but I thought I saw that somewhere. If so, I could see it lasting longer than a year.

 

[Fun Size Nick]

Say WHAT now? Have you met guitarists?

The St. Vincent model is basically like all of the other guitars in the lineup, but with the benefit of crappy ergos.

Funnily enough, the ergos are one of the things that she was particular about. I haven't played it, so I can't comment on it particularly. I do know that she was set on reducing weight to make it easier to play for smaller people (she has mentioned in interviews that she loves old Les Pauls but she finds them too heavy to play as a smaller person).

 

[spade2you]

Is the Mariposa not the signature for the guitar player from Mars Volta? I could be wrong but I thought I saw that somewhere. If so, I could see it lasting longer than a year.

I thought they broke up a few years back. I didn't put it together that he designed it. I can see the dude from Maroon 5 since they're a "little" popular.

 

[spade2you]

Funnily enough, the ergos are one of the things that she was particular about. I haven't played it, so I can't comment on it particularly. I do know that she was set on reducing weight to make it easier to play for smaller people (she has mentioned in interviews that she loves old Les Pauls but she finds them too heavy to play as a smaller person).

I suppose it has better ergos than the Les Paul, but that's not exactly a challenge. Based on how she plays, holds the guitar, etc, I wouldn't have guessed she's all that particular. I don't quite understand the logic of her design and I'm very short. Her design still retains a short horn, which doesn't help with first position reach or balance. Extending the body might help with balance, but also wouldn't help with reach and basically closes the door on most guitar gig bags.

PRS offers the 594, which is basically a Les Paul with a longer top horn. Otherwise, most Les Paul type don't really care about ergonomics. Part of the LP design was based on the way Les Paul (the actual dude) could hold his guitar after a motorcycle accident.

Otherwise, it's tough to beat the ergonomics of the Strat shape, which is why it's so widely copied. The Precision and Jazz are still good.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Funnily enough, the ergos are one of the things that she was particular about. I haven't played it, so I can't comment on it particularly. I do know that she was set on reducing weight to make it easier to play for smaller people (she has mentioned in interviews that she loves old Les Pauls but she finds them too heavy to play as a smaller person).

They didn't explicitly say it, but the articles seemed to hint at the 'ergonomics' being that it was designed for women and the cutout designed to make it comfortable to play with women parts. Then again, maybe I'm a perv and read into it what I wanted to read into it.

 

[odarellmc]

As in: approach Ernie Ball about building me a one-off bass, when the last time they went down this road they refused because it was less than 125 units?

I mean, don't get me wrong: would be fantastic if it worked. Not sure I'll hedge any bets however: option 2 is go with another builder and so I shall. Bummer, insofar as I like the brand and the mojo they and their build quality carry, but nothing insurmountable. So it goes...

No I mean go to him with enough orders (cash in hand) and then see what the answer is. I believe you would get a different response...

 

[dickfitts]

No I mean go to him with enough orders (cash in hand) and then see what the answer is. I believe you would get a different response...

Indeed. I mean: were I a wholesaler of instruments or interested in such I'd absolutely make that kind of power move. I'm just a simple peddler of adult-use recreational psychotropic herbs, however, and stick to business investments I've already got solid roots in whenever possible...

 

[bigtone23]

I have wished EBMM would do a wider spaced 5. My first 5 was (and still have it) a '97 US Jazz Deluxe, which is about 18.5mm or so. That spoiled me for decades. No chance of a G&L, EBMM, Ibanez, etc... during that time.
I have a '98 Carvin BB75 that also has a wider spacing, but it's just a Jazz Bass, really.

However, upon further research, it seemed that EBMM is only found in narrower spacing. I gave up on EBMM and got a '14 Fender Deluxe Dimension 5 with the single humbucker, which is also around 18.5mm. It's a nice bass, plays and feels great, stable, and if you scoop the mids a touch and boost the highs, it sounds close enough to a 3EQ Stingray when playing live or in a mix. Also, it was $425, which makes it easy to live with and not have any buyer's remorse.

I came across a steal of a deal locally on a pair of US EBMM SUBs--a 5 string and 4 string. I bought them mainly for the 4 string, but also because I could easily flip the 5 if I didn't like it after experimenting with the spacing. The 2EQ tone is pure Stingray. That, and after playing it for a few hours, I got used to the 17.5mm enough to deal with it with moderate happiness. I have kept the Dimension just because it's that comfortable, homey feel with a Stingray tone that is close enough. If I have to have that Stingray tone, it's the SUB. Not a big deal, both SUBs and the Dimension all together cost less than a used EBMM SR5.

Interestingly, because of my revelation with narrower spacing, I also picked up an 80s Peavey Dynabass 5 with the old school 16.5mm spacing. That's quite a trip, but with a little time spent, it becomes OK to play, too. It's tone and playability is also what keeps me motivated to play it.

 

[bucephylus]

Ah, jeez...string spacing yet again.

At the time the SR5 was designed, several of the more desirable custom 5’s were built with 17.5” bridge spacing, such as Tobias (and Modulus?). I suspect that was part of the initial decision. Smith’s were at 18mm; and there really isn’t a huge difference between 17.5mm and 18mm.

It is true that “recent” higher end 5’s, such as Sadowsky and A-C, have set the design at 19mm. But, a flip side of that coin is that Roger absolutely refuses to build a narrower neck taper; instead offering to put 18mm bridges on the standard 19mm taper necks. Jimmy was persuaded by Tom Barney to make an 18mm neck taper.

But, in any case my point is that builders can’t just whistle up different neck tapers to suit every player’s needs. And, I know that is frustrating. I happen to adore Sadowsky basses; but, after gigging multiple 5 string versions, just had to let them go; because I personally don’t care for the girth on the 19mm neck. Just a feel thing, I can play either way. But, we don’t see long threads decrying Sadowsky for not making 18mm neck tapers. Why? Well, ultimately most of us have to accept that the builders have cost to deliver issues. The same works for Mr. Ball. It makes no sense to vilify one and not the other.

Yes, players have different preferences. I get it. Builders have to run businesses; and part of that is making cost, supply chain, and production decisions that fit their business model.

And, FWIW, you can get a Sadowsky with the 5 string / 19mm configuration and a MM pickup. So, there’s that.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Ah, jeez...string spacing yet again.

At the time the SR5 was designed, several of the more desirable custom 5’s were built with 17.5” bridge spacing, such as Tobias (and Modulus?). I suspect that was part of the initial decision. Smith’s were at 18mm; and there really isn’t a huge difference between 17.5mm and 18mm.

It is true that “recent” higher end 5’s, such as Sadowsky and A-C, have set the design at 19mm. But, a flip side of that coin is that Roger absolutely refuses to build a narrower neck taper; instead offering to put 18mm bridges on the standard 19mm taper necks. Jimmy was persuaded by Tom Barney to make an 18mm neck taper.

But, in any case my point is that builders can’t just whistle up different neck tapers to suit every player’s needs. And, I know that is frustrating. I happen to adore Sadowsky basses; but, after gigging multiple 5 string versions, just had to let them go; because I personally don’t care for the girth on the 19mm neck. Just a feel thing, I can play either way. But, we don’t see long threads decrying Sadowsky for not making 18mm neck tapers. Why? Well, ultimately most of us have to accept that the builders have cost to deliver issues. The same works for Mr. Ball. It makes no sense to vilify one and not the other.

Yes, players have different preferences. I get it. Builders have to run businesses; and part of that is making cost, supply chain, and production decisions that fit their business model.

And, FWIW, you can get a Sadowsky with the 5 string / 19mm configuration and a MM pickup. So, there’s that.

Yeah, but I've never seen Roger vilify his customers, so there's that.

 

[bucephylus]

Yeah, but I've never seen Roger vilify his customers, so there's that.

True, Roger is a gracious cat, and VERY customer oriented. But, he is equally stubborn about his production specs at the same time.

What are we discussing here, the specs or the builders? I thought it was the specs. There are other builders who can be pretty gritty, even if their basses are fabulous (Smith, cough, cough); but, doesn’t do us any good to discuss their customer orientation short comings, does it? Again, if you are going to go that route, why pick out any one of them in particular? Some builders are simply less customer friendly than others.

 

[odarellmc]

We could go on and on about what was, bottom line, until you guys put up the money (we're talkin roughly, 450-500k) until then, Mr Ball is on point..

 

[MultiScaleMale]

We could go on and on about what was, bottom line, until you guys put up the money (we're talkin roughly, 450-500k) until then, Mr Ball is on point..

He can't be on point when he's controlling the parameters.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

True, Roger is a gracious cat, and VERY customer oriented. But, he is equally stubborn about his production specs at the same time.

What are we discussing here, the specs or the builders? I thought it was the specs. There are other builders who can be pretty gritty, even if their basses are fabulous (Smith, cough, cough); but, doesn’t do us any good to discuss their customer orientation short comings, does it? Again, if you are going to go that route, why pick out any one of them in particular? Some builders are simply less customer friendly than others.

We were discussing both the specs and the builders.

 

[Fun Size Nick]

We could go on and on about what was, bottom line, until you guys put up the money (we're talkin roughly, 450-500k) until then, Mr Ball is on point..

Aaaaaaand we're back to this part of the circle of this thread, even though it's been explained in great detail that 'Mr. Ball' set the thing up to fail.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

True, Roger is a gracious cat, and VERY customer oriented. But, he is equally stubborn about his production specs at the same time.

What are we discussing here, the specs or the builders? I thought it was the specs. There are other builders who can be pretty gritty, even if their basses are fabulous (Smith, cough, cough); but, doesn’t do us any good to discuss their customer orientation short comings, does it? Again, if you are going to go that route, why pick out any one of them in particular? Some builders are simply less customer friendly than others.

No one ever said that EBMM had to produce 19mm spaced basses. It would have been better for Sterling Ball to politely decline than insult folks and create impossible parameters. Personally, I’m done with caring about the issue. Sandberg, MTD, and others, make wide spaced basses with MM style humbuckers more or less in the Stingray location.