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2014 Formula 1 Rule Changes
- Thread starter metalhead398
- Start date
Okay, I must've gotten the Mercedes results mixed up... You're right. And also, to everyone who's saying that the 60s/70s/80s cars were harder, probably not. But yes, with the more primitive aero, and different suspension... less grip. Argue all you want, I'll stick with that. And if you go even farther back, the cars get increasingly more difficult. 50's? 40's? The drive shaft was literally Next to the driver's left knee, no barrier. Those cars were built for sport, and nothing but it. Now, today's cars are great, and fast, grippy, etc. Of course, those times are long gone, and the cars were WAY different, but man-oh-man. They were AWESOME. Only problem would be the lack of any safety whatsoever. They barely wore helmets. Sort of like old Le Mans. Made just to test man and machine. Then some guy said,"Well, I can make a profit off of this!"
You know this talk of Schumacher (sp) is interesting cause Kimi came back from a F1 vaca after racing rally racing and didn't seem to lose a beat but Michael did. In my opinion
I have been a fan of F1 since the late 50's I read a bunch of the books of the era. Loved them as much as James Bond.and I love all the eras. All different flavors of goodness. When I was a preteen I had a neighbor who raced in three different classes of SCCA events on the west coast (and a 3time class winner) as I recall. Every once in a while he would say to me while I was hanging out in his garage "want to go for a ride?" I always said yes and never told my mom about this. He would put on my 5 point seatbelt and off we would go to four wheel drift around the the local roads. I was immedeatly hooked. I have owned some sort of "sports" car. ...for 40 out of 60+ yrs. including Austin Healy Sprite, Triumph TR-4, 70 something Fiat 128 convertible, Celica Supra , which I loved. Miata , BMW Z 3. Still have the last two. Gosh I love racing. Big fan of GTP, Le Mans racing hooking up with GTP series is a good thing I think.Tones of cogent and informed opinions here from folks way more educated than I. I was more blown away that I had never seen a F1 thread on TB. ......oh yea....never searched..so there. And yea another fan of Kimi.
So, I have a couple of things to say:
1) They just announced that Ricciardo will drive for Red Bull next year. I'm kinda excited, seeing as he'll get a chance to drive in a big boy car. My dad's pretty disappointed though; think he was hoping for Kimi.
2) I'm selling a ton of F1 models on feeBay. PM me if you want my account name to look up the cars (you can do that right??). The really do need to go...
1) They just announced that Ricciardo will drive for Red Bull next year. I'm kinda excited, seeing as he'll get a chance to drive in a big boy car. My dad's pretty disappointed though; think he was hoping for Kimi.
2) I'm selling a ton of F1 models on feeBay. PM me if you want my account name to look up the cars (you can do that right??). The really do need to go...
JazznFunk
Supporting Member
Kinda unfair to lump Senna in there... Senna was the victim of Williams' own arrogance in depending too much on 'gadgets' and a car that was undriveable after all that was stripped away - which may or may not have contributed to the crash that ultimately killed him. Senna had many good years left - unfortunately he was gone too soon.
JazznFunk
Supporting Member
My feeling is that Vettel wouldn't have handled having Kimi as a teammate very well... he would have shown him up and Vettel has enough pull to have had some say in it, IMO.
Now it's time to keep Kimi at Lotus, where he's happy... and to get Lotus up to speed in terms of aero package and financial backing.
Now it's time to keep Kimi at Lotus, where he's happy... and to get Lotus up to speed in terms of aero package and financial backing.
Vettel would not have a say in his teammate. That doesn't happen these days. I think it has more to do with the Robertsons not wanting Kimi to go into Vettel's territory. Finnish and Italian media have been crapping themselves trying to convince everyone that Kimi is going to Ferrari- we'll see!
Ricciardo was the right choice, in my opinion- investing in the future. Kimi, Alonso, Button, etc are all in their 30s, and it is time to get the next generation ready. Those guys should be leading the top teams, but alongside a top-line younger driver.
Webber and Massa have had great careers, but it is definitely time to be looking forward. There is plenty of talent in the next gen, in Hulk, Bianchi, Maldonado, Grosjean, etc. Time moves on.
Yes, Senna definitely had a few good years left, but probably not more than 2-3. I'd have to find the interview, but even he acknowledged that he wasn't as fast as he was in his early years, but with the usual "better now because of the experience", etc, which is true. Seems perfectly fair to lump him into that category.
The Williams stuff is conspiracy, imo. Accidents happen, unfortunately.
Ricciardo was the right choice, in my opinion- investing in the future. Kimi, Alonso, Button, etc are all in their 30s, and it is time to get the next generation ready. Those guys should be leading the top teams, but alongside a top-line younger driver.
Webber and Massa have had great careers, but it is definitely time to be looking forward. There is plenty of talent in the next gen, in Hulk, Bianchi, Maldonado, Grosjean, etc. Time moves on.
Yes, Senna definitely had a few good years left, but probably not more than 2-3. I'd have to find the interview, but even he acknowledged that he wasn't as fast as he was in his early years, but with the usual "better now because of the experience", etc, which is true. Seems perfectly fair to lump him into that category.
The Williams stuff is conspiracy, imo. Accidents happen, unfortunately.
I remember reading somewhere that Senna's crash was due, in part to a change they made to the steering column or something relatively soon before the race, and that the part that had been modified had sheared off under the stresses of the race, leaving the car literally undrivable after it happened, sending him into the wall. I could be wrong though, it's been a while since I read up on his death, and I was too young to be following F1 at the time.
JazznFunk
Supporting Member
That is indeed true. It was a part of a steering column that broke, came through the front bulkhead and hit Senna's helmet. My earlier point though is that for the bulk of his career Senna could make any car do what he wanted for the most part and yet, once Williams had their active suspension gadgets outlawed and Senna moved to Williams from McLaren, the next year's Williams chassis was nearly undriveable - even by Senna! He fought that chassis all the time, and the day he died he was still fighting the balance of the car and was totally uncomfortable in it. Watch the 'Senna' documentary and you'll see that discussed in detail. It's like Williams forgot how to build a chassis without active suspension.
I think Williams were so behind the ball and Senna was trying to do everything he could to make the car work, but they were starting even further back from 'square 1' - a very unsafe starting point, IMO. To be fair, everyone was starting from 'scratch' again, but the Williams seemed particularly unstable. Remember also that Senna was convinced deep-down that Schumacher and Benetton were still using those devices to some degree, but they never appealed or investigated.
I think Williams were so behind the ball and Senna was trying to do everything he could to make the car work, but they were starting even further back from 'square 1' - a very unsafe starting point, IMO. To be fair, everyone was starting from 'scratch' again, but the Williams seemed particularly unstable. Remember also that Senna was convinced deep-down that Schumacher and Benetton were still using those devices to some degree, but they never appealed or investigated.
The car can't be undriveable if he set pole at each race of the season up to his death. No way.
The steering column did not cause any direct injury. There is some speculation that the steering column broke prior to Senna crashing (ie, resulting in the crash), however Williams' internal investigation, and an investigation done by a third party, indicated that it more likely broke as a result of the crash. The theory that it caused the crash (and that the Williams was somehow unusually unsafe) is still around because of the lawsuits by (iirc) Italian authorities against Williams. It hasn't ever been proven.
The Senna documentary is by no stretch of the imagination an unbiased source. It has a very definite perspective on issues surrounding his death (and the Prost/Senna rivalry, as well!).
What killed Senna was a combination of a tie rod penetrating his visor and the right front suspension (and I think the wheel) slamming his head against the headrest.
Yup....and saved me a bunch-o-typing!
Visors got thicker and cockpit sides higher as a result.
Can't be that big of one- he couldn't name both Red Bull drivers when interviewed before the race.
I think he was performing at one of the concerts that weekend.
Edit: I have to say, the guys booing after the race? What a horrible, pathetic impulse. You only get to see such an amazing display of driving like that once every year, if that, and they can't appreciate it because a Ferrari* didn't win. It is more than a little lame.
*Or whoever, but it is usually fans dressed in red sadly.
I think he was performing at one of the concerts that weekend.
Edit: I have to say, the guys booing after the race? What a horrible, pathetic impulse. You only get to see such an amazing display of driving like that once every year, if that, and they can't appreciate it because a Ferrari* didn't win. It is more than a little lame.
*Or whoever, but it is usually fans dressed in red sadly.
Been a while, huh?
I lied. Kimi is going to Ferrari, for those who haven't been following F1. The first two-champion lineup since... A long time ago. Yeah.
Also, the teams are releasing their cars right about now, so check online for the pics.
Talk about "when men were men."
In those cars, when you crashed, you died - and they crashed way too often.
No kidding! Two night ago I watched a documentary called Grand Prix. It was about racing in the 50s, 60s, and early 70s and all the drivers who were killed. It was staggering. The early Lotus cars were crazy fast but fiery death traps.
Major respect for those guys!
When I think F1 the names that come to mind are Jim Clark, Graham Hill, John Surtees, Dan Gurney and Jackie Stewart. For my money the mid 60's to mid 70's were the golden age of F1. These were the years before race cars became 200 mph billboards, a shifter type gear box, no computers, just man and machine. I dont want to see a race car using the same "platform" as your everyday grocery getter, thats just boring. Honda should just stick to making Civics
JazznFunk
Supporting Member
The theme of the week with all the reveals seems to be 'Variations On An Anteater', as many thought. So far I think Ferrari has the best compromise. Lotus looks great from the side but from the front it's pretty scary. McLaren actually looks really nice, all things considered. No one's seen Caterham, Force India, etc. in any great detail.
Me too! But those 50s & 60s cars were approaching 200mph; they weren't slow! What they didn't have was the cornering speed or acceleration of modern F1 cars of course.
Jim Clark was killed racing. He was maybe the greatest driver of them all back in the day.
