25" scale micro basses anyone?

[Avezzano]

I just got a Mayones. I bought it simply because it’s so beautiful and TrueTone music made me an offer I couldn’t refuse. It also happens to be small but wears on you perfectly. It also sounds incredible. It’s just another range to dink around with. Things I’m learning that I didn’t expect.. cleaning up my fret hand positions and transposing tunes to different positions. It’s been well worth it in regards to those technique approaches. It’s also ridiculously cute and has serious awww factor

This is so beautiful. Breathtaking, I'd say!

 

[Bassamatic]

I have TI Flats on my Mustang P/J. They are low tension, but just fine. But they are the Short-Scale TIs. JF 324.

BTW - the 324s have along tail and can be used for Medium Scale basses as well. I put a set on my MS Jaguar and they are incredible, and sound completely different than they do at 30" due to the higher tension.

 

[Avezzano]

I have TI Flats on my Mustang P/J. They are just fine. But they are the Short-Scale TIs. JF 324.

So, let me understand (serious: I have no idea, maybe I miss something) the short scale flats are designed ground up for a short scale bass? I mean: not only the length is shorter, but they do have a different tension, respect to the standard scale ones? Because I just ordered TI Flats on Amazon (Thomastik JF344 Set 43-100) and put it on the Ibanez AFB200... they are ok, lengthwise, thanks to the longer string retainer on the hollowbody... just asking.

 

[Bassamatic]

YES! Strings are designed for a particular length and tension. And while they are being wound, the strings are at or near the final tension. I found this out when I had some custom strings made here in L.A. at Guadalupe Strings. Later I checked with several of the major string makers and they responded yes, the strings are wound under tension.

SO if you put LF 344 strings on a 30" bass you will have to wrap a lot of the flats around the tuner, and they will be extremely floppy. Put LF 324s on your AFB - it will be a lot happier.

 

[Avezzano]

YES! Strings are designed for a particular length and tension. And while they are being wound, the strings are at or near the final tension. I found this out when I had some custom strings made here in L.A. at Guadalupe Strings. Later I checked with several of the major string makers and they responded yes, the strings are wound under tension. SO if you put LF 344 strings on a 30" bass you will have to wrap a lot of the flats around the tuner, and they will be extremely floppy. Put LF 324s on your AFB - it will be a lot happier.

Thanks, appreciate your input. But I don't think it applies to my Ibanez AFB200, since the strings go over the nut and to the tuner just fine, even if being 34" designed.

I don't understand much what they said to you: "strings are wound under tension": which tension? Lower tension for the short scale ones? Higher tension? What does this mean? I simply think they have a standard tension and they decide the length where to start applying the red nylon. Not much clear. Furthermore: only a couple of rounds around the tuner post would make the strings feeling floppy? I am confused. Even if I can fully understand you like those strings, that is just fine for you. In any case I remain skeptical about flats. Maybe specifically about TI Flats. On my Dean Stylist B1 (32") I have Fender flats (don't remember which P/N) and they are perfect. I also have TI Flats on the PM2AA guitar and they are absolutely ok. The TI Flats on the Ibanez will stay there only because it's a bass I don't use much, anyway. I don't think I want to buy them again, end of a love story with (bass) TI Flats, for me.

 

[Avezzano]

...another reflection that comes natural to me (you will forgive me): on my 103 euro Rocktile minibass, the strings that come mounted as a default are very probably (surely!) the cheapest strings you can find on the market. So, most probably simple 34" strings just cut at the right length (there is no trace of any red nylon wrap). Yet they are tight enough and resonate full and round, despite the minuscule scale length...

 

[Bassamatic]

The strings are wound under the tension that they will be tuned to. That depends on their design. The heavier the string, the more tension is needed to pull it to pitch. Light gauge strings = less tension.

You have an AFB-200. It has a TAILPIECE. The strings do not start at the bridge they start at least 2 or 2 inches behind the bridge. That is why the longer strings fit, although the 324s would fit better. While your scale of bridge to nut is 30" you actually need MEDIUM SCALE strings. My Hofner bass is the same - it needs Medium Scale string The measurement that is important is ball to nut. Your guitar from the string ball to the nut is at least 32-33" On my 30" Mustang it is 31". for example.

And - I would not assume that the makers would put wrongs scale strings on their instruments. They will order the correct strings and use them to make the instrument sound as good as possible. Especially the low cost instruments. Please keep in mind that they make hundreds or thousands of these at one time, so proper length strings are not a cost item for them.

 

[Avezzano]

The strings are wound under the tension that they will be tuned to. That depends on their design. The heavier the string, the more tension is needed to pull it to pitch. Light gauge strings = less tension.

You have an AFB-200. It has a TAILPIECE. The strings do not start at the bridge they start at least 2 or 2 inches behind the bridge. That is why the longer strings fit, although the 324s would fit better. While your scale of bridge to nut is 30" you actually need MEDIUM SCALE strings. My Hofner bass is the same - it needs Medium Scale string The measurement that is important is ball to nut. Your guitar from the string ball to the nut is at least 32-33" On my 30" Mustang it is 31". for example.

And - I would not assume that the makers would put wrongs scale strings on their instruments. They will order the correct strings and use them to make the instrument sound as good as possible. Especially the low cost instruments. Please keep in mind that they make hundreds or thousands of these at one time, so proper length strings are not a cost item for them.

Thanks a lot! So, if I "could somehow technically arrange" and use short flats (for 30") instead than medium (for 32") it would be even better. Much appreciated.

About the default strings on super short scale cheap instruments, I still (have some) doubt the manufacturers order a lot of them "proper" strings, though.... This would mean that one could find "tension and length correct" roundwound strings on the market, that I doubt is possible, currently. Ok, I will NEVER change strings on my Rocktile... Doh...

But it is interesting that when we (all?) talk about strings for this or that short scale model, unvariably ONLY mention the correct length and there is never mentioned the tension factor, along with the length... Or, at least I never read something about that like: "be aware, if you use XYZ strings they will be length correct, but it will result in a lower tension" etc... That is a whole new world of strings issue for everybody. To be considered... Matter for a whole new post...

 

[BlueRock]

I just mentioned this on another thread. Since a 25" scale is close enough to a 34" scale capo'd at the 5th fret on my 60's Supro Pocket bass I have .120 .100 .080 .060 rounds tuned EADG and the tension is good. I'd prefer flats but dead rounds sound good, go on with no fuss and are easy to get. I can totally live with super dead rounds as a substitute for flats.

An option for flats would be good though. Dogal makes strings for the Tiny Boy including their awesome flats. Maybe if you asked nice they'd make some 25" scale flat sets.

And someone said a 25" scale could never replace a long scale. On the blues trad country americana kinda gigs I mostly do the Supro sure could. If the neck was straight and the fingerboard wasn't falling off I'd regularly play it all night on gigs.

 

[Avezzano]

I just mentioned this on another thread. Since a 25" scale is close enough to a 34" scale capo'd at the 5th fret on my 60's Supro Pocket bass I have .120 .100 .080 .060 rounds tuned EADG and the tension is good. I'd prefer flats but dead rounds sound good, go on with no fuss and are easy to get. I can totally live with super dead rounds as a substitute for flats.

An option for flats would be good though. Dogal makes strings for the Tiny Boy including their awesome flats. Maybe if you asked nice they'd make some 25" scale flat sets.

And someone said a 25" scale could never replace a long scale. On the blues trad country americana kinda gigs I mostly do the Supro sure could. If the neck was straight and the fingerboard wasn't falling off I'd play it regularly all night on gigs.

Got it. Thanks a lot. Only a question: will the possibly "customized" Dogal 25" set also be "tension correct" for the scale? Or it will be just a shorter version of the standard strings? Here only some manufacturer could answer...

A good call for someone at Glarry's...

 

[BlueRock]

Got it. Thanks a lot. Only a question: will the possibly "customized" Dogal 25" set also be "tension correct" for the scale? Or it will be just a shorter version of the standard strings? Here only some manufacturer could answer...

Getting the gauge and tension right would be the thing. But if you started with the lightest gauges they use for their BEAD strings you'd be very close.

 

[Avezzano]

Getting the gauge and tension right would be the thing. But if you started with the lightest gauges they use for their BEAD strings you'd be very close.

You're right, it makes sense and this philosophy is "naturally" followed by some minibass manufacturer, to have a standard EADG tuning. Yet, on my 25" scale, the default strings are more than ok, whatever they are. But I think they are standard 100/40 just cut at measure...

 

[pcake]

i have a 24.75" scale bass. does that count?

here it is next to an ibanez mikro

 

[Avezzano]

i have a 24.75" scale bass. does that count?

here it is next to an ibanez mikroView attachment 4907603

Absolutely... part of the mini-basses-family, here!

(Btw: what is that? Cost? Availability? Do you have the palest idea about which strings it mounts? How do you like its playability/tone?)

 

[Avezzano]

about strings tension...

Length and Tension relationship with the Scale.

 

[Bassamatic]

I don't agree with the conclusion of that thread - I have been to a string factory. The tension is set differently for different strings.

The point is - while a cut long scale string may tune to the same note as a proper short scale string, it will not sound the same. If you want muddy sound, go ahead and cut the strings. Enough said.

 

[Avezzano]

I don't agree with the conclusion of that thread - I have been to a string factory. The tension is set differently for different strings. The point is - while a cut long scale string may tune to the same note as a proper short scale string, it will not sound the same. If you want muddy sound, go ahead and cut the strings. Enough said.

It seems that it is not the regular way, but rather an exception (from the thread):

There are exceptions where the short scale set is designed & optimized for the scale. But by and large, most short scale string sets were made by taking the 34" scale recipe and making it shorter.

And it makes sense. No need to be harsh sounding: "If you want muddy sound, go ahead and cut the strings" no one wants a muddy sounding axe, but reality is that short scale basses come on the market with 34" strings cut short. It is a fact.

 

[Avezzano]

I found this out when I had some custom strings made here in L.A. at Guadalupe Strings. Later I checked with several of the major string makers and they responded yes, the strings are wound under tension.

This is a positive experience, but it already says that we're talking about a "niche" lot of strings.

 

[Avezzano]

always from the thread:

Tension charts prove that, for at least some manufacturers, short and long scale strings of same diameter within a given product line are essentially identical save for winding length.

Then, as you say, it might very well be that other manufacturers apply different tension to different length.

 

[Bassamatic]

It seems that it is not the regular way, but rather an exception (from the thread):



And it makes sense. No need to be harsh sounding: "If you want muddy sound, go ahead and cut the strings" no one wants a muddy sounding axe, but reality is that short scale basses come on the market with 34" strings cut short. It is a fact.

It's a fact? NO - the manufacturers have the strings custom made to their specifications - to the length they want. For example you can order shorty strings from Ibanez for the miKro basses and from GoldTone for their uke basses that are properly made with tails for winding. They are not cut.