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2x10 Eminence BP102 cab build

Why, because of the crossover?

The mid dip of BP102 is 250-700, crossing the mid at 800 wouldn't do anything for that.



As I mentioned above, this can be a can of worms. Speakers are all about tradeoffs, and as you move your mid crossover point down, what are you trading off?

I also don't recommend crossing over that low. Baffle step will address the dip. Or crossover at 500Hz will cover most of it.

Designing for the BP102 is a puzzle, trying to make all the parts fit just right. As you go down in frequency, you begin to limit your choice of mid speakers. Eventually, it becomes another woofer, and you lose the higher end. Or full range, and you lose efficiency. Tradeoffs.

Just because a speaker says that it goes low doesn't mean that you should send everything in the frequency range. Some crossovers have a steep rolloff for a reason. It is best to be conservative in sending a lot of low frequency power to speakers to keep from blowing them.



You don't have to listen to me, but the BP102 is a common speaker and others have looked at it. You might do a search on the BP102 and see what someone like Bill Fitzmaurice says:

"If the box is too small to support this option I'd go with a single BP102 and an Alpha 8MR, with a crossover at 800 Hz. The sealed back mid makes an separate sub-enclosure unnecessary."

"The Alpha 8MR can work pretty well, you just need to design a good crossover for it that pads back the output, protects it from damaging low frequencies and integrates its response with the woofers."


Like Arjank, Bill suggests 800 Hz. And when you design the crossover, protect the mid from damaging low frequencies. Like 250 Hz.
 
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Faital 6FE200 is also more efficient.

It's comparable with the Alphalite 6a, no big difference.
There are many options for mids.

IMO a pair of BP102's in an appropriate cabinet combined with a 6" mid crossed around 800hz will make for a very nice 210 that will kick most 210's in the b....
With a bigger mid (e.g. 8") the highs will drops faster when listening off-axis, so I won't recommend that. Use a 5" or 6" driver for mids (if you don't intend to use a tweeter also).
 
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As previously mentioned crossing the mid lower than 800hz is a waste of money because a wider baffle can adress the dip in b102's midrange. Midrange driver diameter/dispersion pattern is matter of personal tonal preference. Could bet that 90% of bass playing population would prefer guitar 8 or even 10 over any pro sound mid.
 
Midrange driver diameter/dispersion pattern is matter of personal tonal preference. Could bet that 90% of bass playing population would prefer guitar 8 or even 10 over any pro sound mid.

Could be, I just mention the cons of a larger diameter mid. If the cab has a slanted baffle or if you put the cab on a chair or something to get it on ear level the directivity won't be much of an issue.
 
As previously mentioned crossing the mid lower than 800hz is a waste of money because a wider baffle can adress the dip in b102's midrange. Midrange driver diameter/dispersion pattern is matter of personal tonal preference. Could bet that 90% of bass playing population would prefer guitar 8 or even 10 over any pro sound mid.


It doesn't have to be 800Hz. 500 Hz is OK.

8 Ohm system with Parts Express prices:

Eminence BP102 $74.99 (Readily available used for cheaper)
Eminence PXB2:500 $49.99
Faital 6FE200 $44.00
---------------------------------
$168.98
Not a bad system for someone on a budget.

Substitute in your favorite mid.

A wide baffle is OK, but there is the portability issue with a bigger cab. Also, if I were making an 18' wide cabinet, then I would be putting 12" neos in there to push more air.
Wide baffle is OK if you already have the speakers, or are getting them cheap.
 
It doesn't have to be 800Hz. 500 Hz is OK.

8 Ohm system with Parts Express prices:

Eminence BP102 $74.99 (Readily available used for cheaper)
Eminence PXB2:500 $49.99
Faital 6FE200 $44.00
---------------------------------
$168.98
Not a bad system for someone on a budget.

Substitute in your favorite mid.

A wide baffle is OK, but there is the portability issue with a bigger cab. Also, if I were making an 18' wide cabinet, then I would be putting 12" neos in there to push more air.
Wide baffle is OK if you already have the speakers, or are getting them cheap.

When you talk about a "wide baffle" what are you talking about, the distance between the drivers? Wider than what?
 
That's an 8 ohm crossover. The OP can't have an 8 ohm woofer load with two 8 ohm woofers.

Sigh.
You are missing the point. Have you read the whole thread? The topic is the crossover point, not the impedance.

He wants to crossover at 250 Hz.
I say that 500 Hz works.
Rogypop says don't cross over at less than 800.
I say again that 500 Hz works.


Jongor asked for input. I disclosed that my experience is with 8 Ohms - one woofer, not two.

In post # 11, I referred him to a crossover calculator that works for 4 Ohms.
 
Thanks for the input all!

What's a baffle step?

I can give this a shot ....

First think of a speaker mounted at the end of a cylindrical cabinet. High frequencies project forward, but low frequencies can bend around the corner behind the speaker. This is the worst type of cabinet.

Now think of a speaker in a horn enclosure. The sides of the horn project the sound forward.

Now, flatten out the horn to the sides of the speaker. The sides of the horn - now the baffle - doesn't contain and project the sound like the horn, but the sound doesn't bend around the corner backwards easily either.
Short wavelengths project forward, long wavelengths bend around the corner. The larger the baffle, the more low frequencies will project forward.
 
Regarding mids: I used an Alpha 6 mid (regular, open chassis) in a three way bass cab build some years ago. One 15" woofer, Alpha 6 and a horn. The lp freq for the mid was a bit above 400 Hz which turned out to be a tad too low. At an SPL close to what the 15" would handle cleanly, my Precision with rounds would cause the Alpha to "fart out" with a clattering rattle. The 15" I used has a similar capacity as a pair of BP102. If I did it again, I would keep the crossover frequency but go for a more capable mid to prevent over excursion.
 
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so it seems like this project would ideally be a 3 cubic foot 210, with an 18" wide baffle to get that frequency boost from baffle-step, perhaps with the two woofers arrayed vertically, with an alpha6 mid - I'd go with one of the closed-back ones for simplicity - being placed beside it and crossed over between 800-1000hz (perhaps 1000hz first-order), with perhaps a tweeter placed above the mid, maybe an ASD1001 or that new one that eminence made specifically for bass guitar?

Of course, I think that having the mid and tweet arrayed vertically above the BP102 would be ideal, but perhaps asking too much for a convenient form-factor.

Regarding mids: I used an Alpha 6 mid (regular, open chassis) in a three way bass cab build some years ago. One 15" woofer, Alpha 6 and a horn. The lp freq for the mid was a bit above 400 Hz which turned out to be a tad too low. At an SPL close to what the 15" would handle cleanly, my Precision with rounds would cause the Alpha to "fart out" with a clattering rattle. The 15" I used has a similar capacity as a pair of BP102. If I did it again, I would keep the ctossover frequency but go for a more capable mids.


This is certainly worth consideration. Maybe a beta8cx with or without a screw-in tweet would make for a great mid?
I think that perhaps the high-pass for the mid was a bit too low perhaps, thus making it fart out at higher volumes?
 
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The issue with my build was that I gave up some maximum SPL in the mids to have better sound. The Alpha 6 was sitting in its own cavity of 1.5 litres (I think) and was HP filtered at 12 dB/octave. No LP filtering.
In order to align sensitivity, I padded the mid down (using an L pad) by 6 or so dB, but it still ran out of excursion before the woofer did.

I'd say you go for BOTH a more capable mid driver and cross it over a little higher or steeper.
Please note regarding baffle step gain: if you design an 18" wide cabinet and then put the mid close to one side, you will not benefit much from the increased acoustic surface area.
 
Please note regarding baffle step gain: if you design an 18" wide cabinet and then put the mid close to one side, you will not benefit much from the increased acoustic surface area.

The baffle step is most important for the BP102.
I would arrange the drivers like the way I did with my own 210, the BP102's need some space so it isn't a bad idea to increase the width of the cab. The width of my cab is 17" and that would be ok to compensate the 500hz dip of the BP102, an inch more or less isn't a problem.

AKS_01.jpg

Crossover could be something like this, the value's for the two resistors can be tweaked to dampen the mid more or less. Crossover point is approx 750hz.

210 Jongor.png
 
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