Or maybe
Dimensions of duct and Tunning frequency are "wrong, please disregard"
Dimensions of duct and Tunning frequency are "wrong, please disregard"
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2x10 Eminence BP102 cab build
- Thread starter jongor
- Start date
I don't think a B102 is coaxial
The beta 8cx 10cx and 12cx are.
Probably be alot easier to just make a 210 with the BP102 pair you have
And since the BP doesn't have much response above 2k. You could use the selenium horn driver to cover that.
It would require a reasonable sized horn to dip down to 3k. And power handling won't be high. A 18dB crossover slope for the HP would help a little.
Likewise efficiency of the BP102 is low around 91dB pair would be 94dB
I think the sealed back 6" you already have might have not been very audible with a 97 to 98 dB 15"
But it should keep up with and be audible with a 94 dB BP102 pair.
Crossover slope you choose at 800hz for the sealed back was good for the 15"
But you could raise it to 1.2 K with the BP pair. And it would take over nicely since the BP drops off quickly at 2k
Usually 12dB filter slope is ideal for sealed back. But you could just use a simple 6dB filter at 2 k with the sealed back.
Just run the BP102 210 pair full range.
And run the sealed back at 2k with a 6dB filter.
Of course going lower in frequency like 800 Hz 12dB filter be more ideal for power handling.
But raising the crossover point higher to 2k be less of a issue
If you want more high-end the 6" sealed back doesn't do much above 5k.
So then if you use the selenium horn at 4k or 5k it would not require such a large horn. And power handling for the tweeter would be higher.
The beta 8cx 10cx and 12cx are.
Probably be alot easier to just make a 210 with the BP102 pair you have
And since the BP doesn't have much response above 2k. You could use the selenium horn driver to cover that.
It would require a reasonable sized horn to dip down to 3k. And power handling won't be high. A 18dB crossover slope for the HP would help a little.
Likewise efficiency of the BP102 is low around 91dB pair would be 94dB
I think the sealed back 6" you already have might have not been very audible with a 97 to 98 dB 15"
But it should keep up with and be audible with a 94 dB BP102 pair.
Crossover slope you choose at 800hz for the sealed back was good for the 15"
But you could raise it to 1.2 K with the BP pair. And it would take over nicely since the BP drops off quickly at 2k
Usually 12dB filter slope is ideal for sealed back. But you could just use a simple 6dB filter at 2 k with the sealed back.
Just run the BP102 210 pair full range.
And run the sealed back at 2k with a 6dB filter.
Of course going lower in frequency like 800 Hz 12dB filter be more ideal for power handling.
But raising the crossover point higher to 2k be less of a issue
If you want more high-end the 6" sealed back doesn't do much above 5k.
So then if you use the selenium horn at 4k or 5k it would not require such a large horn. And power handling for the tweeter would be higher.
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Thank you very much for all considerations!
I am very inclined to mount with 3x10 (2 BP102 < 250Hz + 1 B102 (crossed in 250 HZ and 2000Hz)) due to the availabilities here in Brazil.
It's a serious problem to find availability here
Will be ok ?
I am very inclined to mount with 3x10 (2 BP102 < 250Hz + 1 B102 (crossed in 250 HZ and 2000Hz)) due to the availabilities here in Brazil.
It's a serious problem to find availability here
Will be ok ?
I don't see the point really.
I wouldn't crossover BP 102 so low. The efficiency isn't that great below 250hz
Likewise B102 is feasible for a mid. But it's a very heavy costly mid.
I understand the availability problem. It's why I suggested using the sealed back 6" mid you already had at a higher crossover point.
The BP102 are more than capable of covering the mid bandwidth you propose for the B102. No need to use another 10 for mids.
I know you already have the drivers. So it's feasible to make just a simple 2x10 with what you got. Run the BP102s full range.
And just run the sealed mid at 2k to take over where the BP102s drop off.
The extra baffle space and weight to use another 10" for such limited bandwidth is not necessary.
Having a dedicated mid is more for decreasing beaming. The beaming frequency of a 10" speaker is not ideal for the proposed bandwidth.
Without bursting your bubble. A pair of BP102 is only 94dB. And the combined weight of 3 10" drivers on crossovers to still only get 94dB is a very heavy complicated non efficient design.
Talking close to 2.8 to 3 cubic feet of airspace and combined weight of three drivers.
A single 15" in 2.8 to 3 cubic feet will be at 98 to 100 dB way more efficient.
You already have drivers. Just a plain full range pair of BP102s no crossover. And either use the sealed mid you already have or the selenium horn driver you already have to cover anything over 1.5 to 2k where the BPs drop off.
Most likely as suggested the sealed 6" will have more power handling and much cheaper crossover at 2k. Plus reasonably amount of overlap which will promote a more audible peak at the crossover point.
I wouldn't crossover BP 102 so low. The efficiency isn't that great below 250hz
Likewise B102 is feasible for a mid. But it's a very heavy costly mid.
I understand the availability problem. It's why I suggested using the sealed back 6" mid you already had at a higher crossover point.
The BP102 are more than capable of covering the mid bandwidth you propose for the B102. No need to use another 10 for mids.
I know you already have the drivers. So it's feasible to make just a simple 2x10 with what you got. Run the BP102s full range.
And just run the sealed mid at 2k to take over where the BP102s drop off.
The extra baffle space and weight to use another 10" for such limited bandwidth is not necessary.
Having a dedicated mid is more for decreasing beaming. The beaming frequency of a 10" speaker is not ideal for the proposed bandwidth.
Without bursting your bubble. A pair of BP102 is only 94dB. And the combined weight of 3 10" drivers on crossovers to still only get 94dB is a very heavy complicated non efficient design.
Talking close to 2.8 to 3 cubic feet of airspace and combined weight of three drivers.
A single 15" in 2.8 to 3 cubic feet will be at 98 to 100 dB way more efficient.
You already have drivers. Just a plain full range pair of BP102s no crossover. And either use the sealed mid you already have or the selenium horn driver you already have to cover anything over 1.5 to 2k where the BPs drop off.
Most likely as suggested the sealed 6" will have more power handling and much cheaper crossover at 2k. Plus reasonably amount of overlap which will promote a more audible peak at the crossover point.
Thank you Bogey !
I just wanted to avoid the "hole" from 300Hz, but it was already explained earlier !
I just wanted to avoid the "hole" from 300Hz, but it was already explained earlier !
I guys !
I thinking of a new model
Considerations about a 2x10 BP 102 + 2 Faital Pro 3FE 22 (Crossover about 800Hz)
(similar SPL )
I thinking of a new model
Considerations about a 2x10 BP 102 + 2 Faital Pro 3FE 22 (Crossover about 800Hz)
(similar SPL )
The Faital is a full-range woofer meant for HiFi applications and is only rated for 20 watts RMS. I don't see how it could be of use for a bass cabinet.
I got the idea of the Genzler Array and Audio Kinesys. I only "match" the crossover and spl
A suggestion... Build some mockups with particle board before you try to finalize.
Test the two drivers in an appropriately sized cab with no crossover, tweeter or midrange first. Does it sound good? If so, build and finish your cab.
If not, think about a tweeter or a mid. Your next step - Find a way to accurately get impedance sweep data, because without this any effort you make to build a crossover will be wasted.
Sims do not give you accurate results without it.
Test the two drivers in an appropriately sized cab with no crossover, tweeter or midrange first. Does it sound good? If so, build and finish your cab.
If not, think about a tweeter or a mid. Your next step - Find a way to accurately get impedance sweep data, because without this any effort you make to build a crossover will be wasted.
Sims do not give you accurate results without it.
That might work out basically double 800hz and go too 1600hz
The SPL match is very good,
the 10" drivers are 200 watt, but will reach distortion around 100 watts so the pair is good for 180/230 watts
you would have to model the BP drivers with the Faitals on a crossover.
Ill assume the BP would be good for 118/121 dB
so as long as the 40 watt pair of Faitals can keep up with the 10" it would work
at 800hz you would have to see how much the max SPL of the Faitals are.
If they reach to much distortion and cant do 118/121 dB at 800hz
then try another bandwidth and take them up to 1,600hz and see if the max SPL will keep up with the 10"
either way looking at the Faitals the impedance curve is pretty friendly for a 800hz or 1600 hz crossover.
SPL match is good for 1 watt Sensitivity, just need to model them at higher power.
20 watts or a 40 watt pair seems more feasible at higher bandwidth 1,600hz
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Faital 3FE22 - Sensitivity (1W/1m) 91 dB
Eminence BP102 - Sensitivity (1W/1m) 91,8 dB
I read somewhere that Genzlers use the 3FE22 with a crossover around 500Hz
My idea is to match the BP102 pair with a "higher cut crossover (about 800 - 1500Hz )", and Faital to match the high / mid highs, without using drives / tweeters
Eminence BP102 - Sensitivity (1W/1m) 91,8 dB
I read somewhere that Genzlers use the 3FE22 with a crossover around 500Hz
My idea is to match the BP102 pair with a "higher cut crossover (about 800 - 1500Hz )", and Faital to match the high / mid highs, without using drives / tweeters
Im not sure what they use, but most their systems seem to incorporate 4 to 6 of those drivers.
1 watt spl Sensitivity is a good match for your LF drivers, far as what it does at higher spl.
It would have to be modeled, I wouldn't want to just guess.
Alot of the fearful guys seem to think 100 watt 93 db mids work with 450 watt 96 dB LF drivers.
they seem to think it works, so you never know.
There was random reports of blown mids....so go figure lol
Then again it " works" for others.
1 watt spl Sensitivity is a good match for your LF drivers, far as what it does at higher spl.
It would have to be modeled, I wouldn't want to just guess.
Alot of the fearful guys seem to think 100 watt 93 db mids work with 450 watt 96 dB LF drivers.
they seem to think it works, so you never know.
There was random reports of blown mids....so go figure lol
Then again it " works" for others.
Yep!! 4 to 6 3FE22 and (91dB) -> 2 to 4 Faital LF 96dB ! (100db ~ 99db)
so...
2 FE22 to -> 2 BP102 (91,8db) maybe a perfect "double pair" ( 94dB ~94,8dB) LOL
Sorry about my english...
I Already mount 2 diferent models of 210 bass cab with BP102. Aways use a Selenium / JBL drive with crossover at 1,8Khz (and L-pad).
I also set up a greenboy model 12/6/1, but the difficulty and the high price of the speakers and the big one!.
Well ... I like the sound of the bp102 (even with low spl) so I would like to mount them without a drive
Maybe 3FE22 are the solution !?!?!!
so...
2 FE22 to -> 2 BP102 (91,8db) maybe a perfect "double pair" ( 94dB ~94,8dB) LOL
Sorry about my english...
I Already mount 2 diferent models of 210 bass cab with BP102. Aways use a Selenium / JBL drive with crossover at 1,8Khz (and L-pad).
I also set up a greenboy model 12/6/1, but the difficulty and the high price of the speakers and the big one!.
Well ... I like the sound of the bp102 (even with low spl) so I would like to mount them without a drive
Maybe 3FE22 are the solution !?!?!!
Yep!! 4 to 6 3FE22 and (91dB) -> 2 to 4 Faital LF 96dB ! (100db ~ 99db)
so...
2 FE22 to -> 2 BP102 (91,8db) maybe a perfect "double pair" ( 94dB ~94,8dB) LOL
Sorry about my english...
I Already mount 2 diferent models of 210 bass cab with BP102. Aways use a Selenium / JBL drive with crossover at 1,8Khz (and L-pad).
I also set up a greenboy model 12/6/1, but the difficulty and the high price of the speakers and the big one!.
Well ... I like the sound of the bp102 (even with low spl) so I would like to mount them without a drive
Maybe 3FE22 are the solution !?!?!!
Maximum SPL of a One BP102 is about 115dB
10% distortion with 120/140 watts
I did a quick model of One FE22 in relatively large sealed enclosure
.5 liters or .017 cubic feet, With a very very simple 6dB crossover at 800hz.
Good news is you can drive that speaker to full 20 watt thermal power and have no distortion. With a simple 800hz 6dB crossover.
my concern for power handling and thinking crossover needed to be higher, isn't necessary.
Max SPL is around 99dB
Graph below shows
1x BP102 at 120 watts
1x FE22 at max thermal power 20 watts, 800hz 6dB highpass
Faital Claims 91dB average for a FE22, that will average in higher peaks. Actual usable
Bandwidth with the Surface Diameter of that driver models at 87.7 dB
it basically takes 2 to 3 of those to match SPL of one BP102 so 4 to 6 for a 2x10
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Thank you Very Much Bogey bass!!
I WIll simulate with 12db crossover and crossover higer to! I see that SPl its a litle "small" , but, Genzler match 4 3FE22 with 2 faital speakers 96dB (99dB total 1W/m)), but crossover pass very low. Well soon new results ! LOL
I WIll simulate with 12db crossover and crossover higer to! I see that SPl its a litle "small" , but, Genzler match 4 3FE22 with 2 faital speakers 96dB (99dB total 1W/m)), but crossover pass very low. Well soon new results ! LOL
Due to market availability, I am changing direction for this project. I already have the BP102.
I have available Celestion TF0615MR (6 "closed back) and an Eminence APT50 driver
Crossover 0.9 ~ 5.6 KHz (optional 4dB atenuation in Mid way- via switch maybe) and Lpad in High way.
Unfortunately again I have to rely on what I have available now here in the country.
- 2 x BP102
Crossover ~ 900Hz (1 or 2 order) with optional 4 dB attenuation to mid side
- 1 x TF0615MR (Celestion Closed Back)
Crossover ~ 5200Hz (2 order)
- 1 x APT50 (Eminence)
(The "last" option its
2x bp102 and a JBL / seleniu D202Ti (with crossover at 1,8Khz)
But I will like to listen a 3 way system with 2 eminence BP102
any toughs ? Thank you Guys for help!
I have available Celestion TF0615MR (6 "closed back) and an Eminence APT50 driver
Crossover 0.9 ~ 5.6 KHz (optional 4dB atenuation in Mid way- via switch maybe) and Lpad in High way.
Unfortunately again I have to rely on what I have available now here in the country.
- 2 x BP102
Crossover ~ 900Hz (1 or 2 order) with optional 4 dB attenuation to mid side
- 1 x TF0615MR (Celestion Closed Back)
Crossover ~ 5200Hz (2 order)
- 1 x APT50 (Eminence)
(The "last" option its
2x bp102 and a JBL / seleniu D202Ti (with crossover at 1,8Khz)
But I will like to listen a 3 way system with 2 eminence BP102
any toughs ? Thank you Guys for help!
for the apt50 yes does better at 5k to go lower with a horn or tweeter. you need a bigger horn for 3k or 1.8k and at more lower bandwidth need at least apt80 driver.
so yes perfect apt50 survives good at 5k has its own built in horn.
for sealed back mid, the friendly part of the impedance curve sits high around 700hz , so for crossover.
yes 900hz is fine, use softer slope 6db.
Basically exactly where the impedance curve is friendly between 700 / 900hz so 900hz crossover is good.
so yes perfect apt50 survives good at 5k has its own built in horn.
for sealed back mid, the friendly part of the impedance curve sits high around 700hz , so for crossover.
yes 900hz is fine, use softer slope 6db.
Basically exactly where the impedance curve is friendly between 700 / 900hz so 900hz crossover is good.
Hello Guys!
A new hope, with parts available in the country.
Faital 6FE200 (16ohms)
2 x BP102 + Faital 6FE200 - crossover about 800 , 900 Hz ( 6 or 12 db?) its ok ?
One last attempt to mount a 3 way > if it doesn't feel good, mount the 2 way anyway
Thank you!
A new hope, with parts available in the country.
Faital 6FE200 (16ohms)
2 x BP102 + Faital 6FE200 - crossover about 800 , 900 Hz ( 6 or 12 db?) its ok ?
One last attempt to mount a 3 way > if it doesn't feel good, mount the 2 way anyway
Thank you!
