2x10 stacked vertical?

[Joey J]

subjecting both the player and the audience to similar amount of combing, rather than one party getting all of it? Doesn't sound like too bad a compromise to me.

In other words it's OK if it sounds bad just as long as it sounds equally bad both on stage and off?

 

[thejohnkim]

Sure, but as the drivers are closer to a point source configuration doesn't that mean that the comb filtering will be a compromise in both planes, subjecting both the player and the audience to similar amount of combing, rather than one party getting all of it? Doesn't sound like too bad a compromise to me.

No.

You're not splitting the combing effect. You're doubling it. Remember those interference lectures in high school with light rays?

 

[4Mal]

I run my 2x10's vertically. Mostly to get the top speaker up closer to my ear. Works much better as a monitor that way. I was out at an open mic last evening. Guys in the bar were like, hey, cool stack. I'm looking at this thing thinking, well at least it works. My rack on top of the skinny little bag ends isn't really a ferocious looking rig to me ... It's kinda like broccoli. Skinny on the bottom ...

 

[IvanMike]

just to comment on some of the questions posed to bill;

i've had a better sound both for the audience and for me in all cases where i've used vertical arrays. Even with my rig on one side of the stage the audience hears it just as well from either side unless they're sitting on me. I know as I've had other players sit in and gone out into the crowd myself.

as far as what i hear when playing, i get a much more coherent sound, probably as bill has mentioned due to the driver closest to my head giving me the majority of what i hear as a somewhat isolated "point source".

i too have gotten some ribbing for how it looks (go do a search for my thread "six foot vertical stack oh my" to see how silly it looks). But everyone shuts up once i start playing.

 

[Mark Reccord]

In other words it's OK if it sounds bad just as long as it sounds equally bad both on stage and off?

Best post ever.


Oh, and vertical arrays rule, though for bass guitar, I do like the sound of an 810 or 610 cab, physics be damned!

On a sorta related note, Bill, I just got the new AX and I was just wondering if you've actually done the J-Array of DR300s?

 

[el_Kabong]

In other words it's OK if it sounds bad just as long as it sounds equally bad both on stage and off?

Or how about it's ok if it sounds equally good both on stage and off, that's just as valid a way to put it! All I'm trying to discuss without getting into a pissing contest is why people are finding an improvement in their sound with a vertical stack. The idea was put forward that it was due to comb filtering. From what I can see the comb filtering in this configuration is actually worse from the player's perspective. So maybe the reason isn't comb filtering (which occurs in all multi driver configs, it's about managing it for a given objective from what I can tell) but something else? In the interest of trying understand what's going on and hoping I might learn something I've been trying to discuss it. Why is that a reason to get snotty?

No.

You're not splitting the combing effect. You're doubling it. Remember those interference lectures in high school with light rays??

No I don't remember, too long ago! My understanding is that as the difference in distance between the two sound sources (drivers) increases that the comb filtering will be worse from the listener's perspective. The reason it's worse is that the delay is increased for the remote driver which causes combing to occur at a lower frequency. I may be wrong so please correct me if I am. The vertical stack gives the greatest distance between two drivers so in that plane it seems to me you're going to get the worst combing?? The two rows of two tens seems to me to even out the combing performance in both planes, with both being better than the vertical stack measured in the vertical plane (does that make sense?). Anyway I have no doubt that people are liking what they are hearing, I'm just interested in understanding why.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

On a sorta related note, Bill, I just got the new AX and I was just wondering if you've actually done the J-Array of DR300s?

Photo shop.

Anyway I have no doubt that people are liking what they are hearing, I'm just interested in understanding why.

You seem to have the impression that comb filtering results in an altered but constant frequency response. It does not. Comb filtering results in a constantly shifting response based upon the listeners position. If the sources are vertically arrayed and the listener moves across the soundfield the frequency response remains constant; if horizontally arrayed frequency response shifts with every step you take. The distance between the drivers is not the problem, it's the difference between the distances from each of the radiating elements to the listeners ears that is.

 

[Mark Reccord]

Photo shop.

I realize the graphic was photoshopped, but I was just curious as to weather you'd actually tried it. I guess you haven't...

 

[billfitzmaurice]

I realize the graphic was photoshopped, but I was just curious as to weather you'd actually tried it. I guess you haven't

While I work with J arrays all the time as a consulting audio engineer, my own system consists of two diminutive DR200s. But line arrays are very predictable in their response, so you don't actually have to build eight of them to know how they'll work. That's the beauty of the things, use one or use a dozen, the sound quality doesn't change.

 

[Esquillama]

I used my Carvin 2x10 vertical tonight, and since I got my
speaker cable fixed, it sounded great! I set it up so it was
firing across from the side of the stage.
I went to the other side of the stage and I could hear it standing
next to the keyboard player. I went back next to the drummer
and I could hear it there. I turned the gain up on my power amp
and nobody said that it was too loud(usually I get "the look"
when I turn up).

I was also running a little delay just to fatten up the sound.
We had a soundman that I totally trust tonight, and I told him
what I was trying and to let me know if it sounded weird out
front. He told me that he thought it sounded great.

I didn't have to angle the cabinet, it was just off to my left
and projected just fine. I don't know about comb filtering
or any of the technical stuff. It's easier to reach the controls
on the gear in my rack when I have the speaker vertical, with
the rack sitting on top of it.

So yes, you can use a single cabinet 2x10 when PA support
is available, and still hear yourself and get a good sound.
I should also say that I got a chance to go out into the
audience while our lead guitarist played bass for a Motown
Medley that I sing, and the sound out front was nice.