2x15 bit too boomy

[Audumbla De Koe]

Dear Friends, I am really enjoying my new coronaproject. Noisy punky drum and bass riffin! You can see the rig in my avatar, laney klipp 100 watt and a 2x15 bassman cab. The Klipp is a guitar amp, love the sound but still a bit too muddy for this project. You guys believe I can cut some bass or low mids with an eq pedal ? Looking at the the mxr 10 band...
Or is it difficult to get the mud out this way and do i need to look for an other cab? 2x12 maybe?..
Just love that cab for other purposes so hope that some eq'ing can give me some crunchy crispy and more defined heavyness...

 

[agedhorse]

The first thing to identify is if the problem is due to the cabinet or the amp. Some guitar amps have a fairly big low frequency weighting and mid cut to the voicing, and while it might work ok with speakers that are thin on the low end, it can become overwhelming quite quickly on a speaker with good low end extension.

 

[bigdaddybass12]

What type of bass are you playing? Precision style? I quit playing my Fender P because it is just too muddy.

 

[Omega Monkey]

That cab is probably too small for the drivers in it, which is usually going to cause a low mid hump. They probably did that on purpose back then, because it makes the cab louder, but also sound kind of like crap for most things. A more serious BASS cab that's better designed for bass would be a better choice ("vintage" is fine, but maybe not QUITE so vintage, even an ACC 106 would probably be a lot better). The guitar amp probably isn't helping.

You could try using a parametric EQ and dial out maybe around 100 Hz or so. The problem is the reason the cab sounds like it does is because it can't really handle true low end, so as you cut 100 Hz (or whatever the offending frequency as, as discovered by trial and error sweeping that low cut) and bring up the overall volume to compensate, you start really hammering the cab lower down where it really can't hang. If you were playing mild mannered music in smaller places, that might not be an issue. But for loud and raucous and uncontrolled, you really want the cab to be way beyond what you need otherwise you'll probably be killing drivers on a regular basis.

You could pair the EQ with a HPF, and that will help with speaker preservation, but if you still need a sizeable low cut above that, you may find the sound is too thinned out to be usable.

As a start, to figure out the best course of action, I would probably try the cab with whatever you have that is closest to a traditional modern bass head. Something that you know "this is supposed to sound like a bass amp". If that alleviates your issues, then swapping out the head or adding additional EQ to the guitar head might get you where you want to be. But my best guess is that that cab is not really suited to what you are trying to do. It might be cool in its own way for the things that it's good at, but it could be a situation like "why doesn't the load of plywood fit in the back of my old MG?" or "why can't this 20 foot box truck corner like my old Lotus?" etc.... You have to use the right tools for the job.

 

[Redbrangus]

Well, some EQ probably wouldn't hurt. I'm presuming the channel EQ on the amp didn't get you where you wanted to go, so maybe some sort of outboard EQ could well help. But a 10-band MXR graphic probably isn't going to be particularly effective, IMO. A good, sweepable HPF would be my first thought, but I'm not familiar enough with the market to recommend a specific one. A decent parametric would be my next choice.

@agedhorse is right about not replacing your cab before you've actually isolated the problem to the cab. Having said that, if those are the stock Bassman drivers, they weren't particularly good speakers, even for their day, and also, the box wasn't really big enough for two 15" drivers. If you like the vibe of the box, it would probably be possible to replace the drivers with something contemporary with only minimal re-engineering and get the performance you want. But if you want to look for a different cab, it would be a mistake to assume that a 212 is automatically or generically brighter, or less boomy than a 215. There are countless threads here about the relative lack of correlation between speaker diameter and frequency response.

 

[Wasnex]

That cab is probably too small for the drivers in it, which is usually going to cause a low mid hump. They probably did that on purpose back then, because it makes the cab louder, but also sound kind of like crap for most things. A more serious BASS cab that's better designed for bass would be a better choice ("vintage" is fine, but maybe not QUITE so vintage, even an ACC 106 would probably be a lot better). The guitar amp probably isn't helping.

You could try using a parametric EQ and dial out maybe around 100 Hz or so. The problem is the reason the cab sounds like it does is because it can't really handle true low end, so as you cut 100 Hz (or whatever the offending frequency as, as discovered by trial and error sweeping that low cut) and bring up the overall volume to compensate, you start really hammering the cab lower down where it really can't hang. If you were playing mild mannered music in smaller places, that might not be an issue. But for loud and raucous and uncontrolled, you really want the cab to be way beyond what you need otherwise you'll probably be killing drivers on a regular basis.

You could pair the EQ with a HPF, and that will help with speaker preservation, but if you still need a sizeable low cut above that, you may find the sound is too thinned out to be usable.

As a start, to figure out the best course of action, I would probably try the cab with whatever you have that is closest to a traditional modern bass head. Something that you know "this is supposed to sound like a bass amp". If that alleviates your issues, then swapping out the head or adding additional EQ to the guitar head might get you where you want to be. But my best guess is that that cab is not really suited to what you are trying to do. It might be cool in its own way for the things that it's good at, but it could be a situation like "why doesn't the load of plywood fit in the back of my old MG?" or "why can't this 20 foot box truck corner like my old Lotus?" etc.... You have to use the right tools for the job.

I agree there is a good chance the cab is the source of the tone problem (boominess). However I suspect the tuning of the cab is sort of masking a problem with the amp as well. The boominess makes the cab seem extremely efficient, so the low-powered (100W) amp is able to keep up in a loud setting by sounding like . If you correct the boom, chances are more powerful amp will be needed to keep up.

@Audumbla De Koe In order for that cab to handle power well, I believe you will need to add bracing and possibly install some ports. This is on top of choosing and buying drivers the will work well in the available volume of the box. You may be better off saving your money and putting it towards a good quality bass rig.

Before you start going down the road of modeling drivers to see what will work in the cab. I suggest that you actually do a reality check and try the amp with a real bass cab. Then you will have a better idea for how far 100W will go with a properly designed bass cab. This will give you better context so you can assess whether it's worth the expense of upgrading the Fender cab.

 

[808State]

Could be tone controls.

Keep the bass knob way down around 2 or 3
turn the midrange all the way up.

Far as the cabinet itself.
If someone changed the speakers, they might not have used speakers that would be as friendly
to a sealed box. Depending on mechanical properties a speaker that prefers a ported enclosure
can be boomy in a sealed application.

I would try a major bass reduction on the amplifiers EQ settings
And turn the mid fully up to almost fully up.

What sounds good at low volume, will sound very different at band levels.

 

[5StringPocket]

That’s a potent guitar amp but from Andy’s comment, a high pass filter to tighten the low end might help. For a crisp punchy bass tone you need clean headroom and from what I can find, the Bassman 2x15 drivers are a bit weak. You could find more capable drivers if you want to keep the cab but at some point it makes sense to just get a better one. Those old cabs might have sentimental value but there has been a lot of progress and innovation the last 30 years. Lots of good used deals in the classifieds that will give you better performance and tone.

 

[bobyoung53]

Dear Friends, I am really enjoying my new coronaproject. Noisy punky drum and bass riffin! You can see the rig in my avatar, laney klipp 100 watt and a 2x15 bassman cab. The Klipp is a guitar amp, love the sound but still a bit too muddy for this project. You guys believe I can cut some bass or low mids with an eq pedal ? Looking at the the mxr 10 band...
Or is it difficult to get the mud out this way and do i need to look for an other cab? 2x12 maybe?..
Just love that cab for other purposes so hope that some eq'ing can give me some crunchy crispy and more defined heavyness...

Have you tried just cutting the bass on the head and adding some mids? I have a large bassman cab with 2 12"s that sounds good with a Bassman head. I have never liked playing bass through guitar heads.

 

[Wasnex]

I have never liked playing bass through guitar heads.

I thought you like Fender Showman heads?

 

[Killing Floor]

HPF

 

[lowplaces]

HPF

Yep, instant boom buster.

 

[lowplaces]

What I noticed about my Broughton HPF is that once I dialed the boom out I could turn my bass control up on the amp without the boom coming back. Even dime it.

 

[shadven]

Yes, HPF. Game changer for me.

 

[Audumbla De Koe]

Hey guys, thanks for so much input!

First Ill try the amp on a different cab, there is an ampeg 4x10 closeby to try.

The speakers are not stock, eminence deltas are in right now, i will also try with an acoustic 220 on the bassman cab, it has a powerful eq. But i started to play on the klipp cause it has beautiful tube amp overdrive, really like with bass too. So the way with a hpf is intruiging me too. But there is not such thing on the market right now, in europe anyway. I see usa has the broughton devices, maybe the mooer radar, but bit afraid of the digital stuffff.....

 

[Redbrangus]

The speakers are not stock, eminence deltas are in right now,

Aha! Random Replacement Syndrome. Those are good enough drivers -- sufficient MF and HF response -- but the box needs to be tuned properly for them to work as designed. The speakers and enclosure are supposed to work together as a system.

 

[Bisounourse]

So the way with a hpf is intruiging me too. But there is not such thing on the market right now, in europe anyway. I see usa has the broughton devices, maybe the mooer radar, but bit afraid of the digital stuffff.....

Broughton Devices is from Canada

If you are handy with a soldering iron, or if you have a friend that is handy with a soldering iron:
HPF + LPF: VONG-Filterung – Schalltechnik_04
HPF: MINI-HP-VONG – Schalltechnik_04

And there is the Thumpinator by SFX (although that is a fixed cut IIRC)

 

[Martin Beer]

So the way with a hpf is intruiging me too. But there is not such thing on the market right now, in europe anyway. I see usa has the broughton devices, maybe the mooer radar, but bit afraid of the digital stuffff.....

If you're willing to consider a self-assembly kit, the Schalltechnik Vong is a good HPF pedal that comes from Europe. There's a mini version that's a HPF only, or the full version has an LPF and DI output too. I have the full size version, and it can be a useful problem solver for a few different situations - the HPF does what you'd expect, the LPF can tame a harsh fuzz like a Superfuzz, and the phase switch could get you out of trouble if you ever experiment with running two amps.

 

[Audumbla De Koe]

allright, thanks you all! a friend of mine will make me something like the para eq from empress, think that should do the trick, handy tool in all cases I believe!

 

[baxter_x]

Could this be also related to the damping factor? Or it's just out of the equation?