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Double Bass 3 fingers, 4 fingers

thombo

thombo

Aug 25, 2006
2,027
929
Denver, CO
#1
i am a doubler who is far better at electric. on upright, i was trained with simandal, so i was taught to always play a note as close to the nut as i can (1/2 and 1st position and ascend on G string) using the 1st, 2nd, and 4th finger 'till i reach thumb position.
as time has passed, i have learned a few things (thumb position anywhere in the neck, utilizing all notes on all stings, etc).
most recent, i have been experrimenting with a more electric apporach (using all 4 fingers) when i reach 4th position (D on G sting), up to thumb position.
thoughts?
 
#2
unless you have massive hands, doing that'll probably wreck your intonation. i personally prefer the 1-2-4 method and then switching to 3rd finger in seventh position to thumb, because it's far more automatic, leaving my mind free to think about the music i'm playing. It's very concrete, making your left hand sort of a 'machine' type of thing. But that said, you've just gotta do what feels right to you.
 
#3
If you practice diligently, you can use a four-finger spread with good intonation. Admittedly, it is easier to do this if you have larger hands and a bass with a smaller string length, but it can be done. My teacher in college had been a student of Art Davis, who wrote a method book on using a four-finger spread over the entire bass, and my teacher really advocated this method. I never dived into it, but I have a good friend who did, with success. The most important thing is simply to practice and figure out on your own what works for you, but it is advised to get a teacher so that you don't develop habits that could lead to health problems.
 
#4
I've been adapting my technique recently since studying with Joel Quarrington, and we use all fingers, with lots of context based decisions on whether to use 2 or 3. The main idea is to be able to stretch the hand over a minor third with a rolling / pivot motion, never straining the hand but reaching when necessary. I can guarantee that one can have beautiful intonation using this technique, but it takes a bit of practice.

Eugene levinson's School of Agility has lots of fingerings for scales involving similar concepts.
 
#5
It does work in the area you specify, but doing it with a strong pizz tone could be a lot of strain on the left hand. If you are playing "touchbass" with the action all the way down and the amp cranked it could be OK.

As I have said before, playing classical works you have practiced a lot is more condusive to alternate fingering techniques than improvising a line from nothing - this is in the jazz technique area.
I use a lot of different fingering techniques myself, but I like either the technique or the music to be solid, when both are too fluid it gets slippery.
On the other hand sometimes the only way to play what you hear needs one of the less stable fingering methods.
In general I prefer the stability of lower thumb positons over pivots and 4 fingers, but as I said sometimes the music will call for those, and we need to serve the music.
 
#8
My teacher studied with the pricipal bassist of Göteborg Symphony orchestra (Swedish National Orchestra). He was taught to use 4 fingers all over the neck up till thumb position (that was supposed to be "state-of-the-art" in Europe). However, since he has smaller hands he now uses mainly 3 fingers and only 4 fingers in higher positions when needed.

I guess you have to find out what fits your prerequisities (hand size, strength, etc.)

You will find a lot of posts in favor of the 4-finger technique over at the Orchestral Technique area if you do a search there.

Regards, Anders
 
#9
To comment on a pretty old thread, I know, back in November, I spoke very strongly about Simandl fingerings and positions; Since December I've been learning 4 finger stuff (new teacher), and am really growing to like it. My practicing has shifted from almost all jazz to almost all classical now, but when I'm playing in groups and stuff, I'm using 4 finger tech a lot, and am finding it's nice to use in lots of jazz situations, particularly in keys like Db or Eb (makes the Tricotism head a breeze). I'm starting to feel like Simandl requires so much unnecessary shifting, and that pivoting is so much more musical (plus I come from a cello background). My belated 2c.
 
#10
I was one of Dr. Art Davis's students until he passed away last year. the four finger technique he pioneered for jazz/classical is amazing. I have short fingers, but good intonation and very fast speed. It really helps in running horn lines on bass. You can play a two octave range with one shift and every common jazz scale in one position. He taught me strength building techniques to develope the four finger approach and pivots that help to save engery and improve efficiency. However, One thing I need to adapt more but have not is his position. he stands behind the bass, which arches the fingers more and gives you more power. I will never forget folks Dr. Davis's sound. I was in a hotel restuart and at the back while his duo was playing. I got up to go to the buffet and though, man he is loud, he needs to turn his amp down. Next lesson I asked him what amp he was using that night (he had two). He said, "I wasn't using one." That was the power of his technique, perfected after all those amazing years. Everyone interested in four finger playing needs to get Dr. Davis's book from Lemurs.
 
#14
fingers said:
I think the important thing to note is that guys who use a four finger method down low often use a Rabbath-style technique in that there is some pivoting around the thumb. Just stretching with brute force to try to get BG fingerings to work on DB sounds like a bad idea.
Click to expand...

+1, I would also note there is a big difference between being a former student of Art Davis and just deciding one day to use all four fingers.
It is possible but has been avoided for a reason, make sure you study with a professional fully versed in legit four finger technique. Otherwise you are just asking for physical problems that could keep you from playing the bass at all.
 
#19
... is fine. That said, whatever does without hurting.

My way is this: Play 3-Finger Up to the neck joint. From there, 4 Finger. And use open strings wherever possible. For example (if you have a D scale instrument), F-maj scale up would be 1-3 on E, 0-1-3 an A, 0-2-3 on D. 0 on G, shift to A on D-String, play 1-2-4 on D and then 1-3-4 on G.

There´s tricky key with this (Gb, Ab, Db), and sometimes you have to use the 2 on the neck joint point (D/A/E/B downwards). But I find it very easy to play like this, and perfectly manageable despite my scale length being 42.5 and my fingers being rather short.

Now, the tricky ones like Db: 1-3 on A-String, 1-2-4 on D-String, shift to Bb with the 1, the 3-4. This is a little tough, but practice did it.

Anyways, just my 2 cents.

MrSidecar
 
#20
I think the main debate is more about stretched hand vs relaxed hand. I think using strict simandl (especially the german 1 2 4 method which causes a very bad angle on the index finger - I much prefer the italian 1 3 4 school) is a lot more tendonitis prone than the technique JQ teaches, in which the hand is never extended for more than the time a not is played, constantly in motion from tension and expansion to relaxed and small.

I would ad that I use this technique both for classical and for jazz (I am predominantly a jazz bass player). It is almost necessary to play that way in order to get around the instrument tuned in fifths.
 

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