3 Way Toggle or Blend Pot? Pros? Cons?

[KenD]

3 Way Toggle
Pros: Quick, definite settings
Cons: limited to 3 choices

Blend Pot
Pros: variable settings between neck and bridge pickup
Cons: slower to find/.reset desired blend

Others ???

 

[Wood and Wire]

3 Way Toggle
Pros: Quick, definite settings
Cons: limited to 3 choices

Blend Pot
Pros: variable settings between neck and bridge pickup
Cons: slower to find/.reset desired blend

Others ???

Depending on the configuration of the other controls, the thing I like about a 3 way toggle is that it enables you to use it as a kill switch.

That can be really useful live, either between songs, or to control feedback in high gain situations.

It also allows you to get creative, with terminating :

(toggle on the bass during the verses)



(bass put through a DJ turntable mixer, and terminated from 3:38)



Personally, my gold standard for basses with two pickups, is Rickenbacker 4001 / 4003.

Best of both worlds, with pretty limitless flexibility (and that before you even get into push/pull tone caps, and stereo output).

 

[KenD]

Here's a simple solution that might work well for my three hole bass. Noll Electronic has a nice selection of values in stacked pots:

I could use one of these as vol/tone for each pickup in place of the existing shared separate vol and tone pots, and retain the 3 way toggle. Middle position (both on) would allow me to blend, and the other two positions retain the either/or function. The simplicity of this appeals to my aging brain

 

[GR7G5TER]

3 Way Toggle
Pros: Quick, definite settings
Cons: limited to 3 choices

Blend Pot
Pros: variable settings between neck and bridge pickup
Cons: slower to find/.reset desired blend

Others ???

I'm a big fan of the third option.

The dingwall quadtone (or wire your own 4 way rotary)

I must stress that I have this on a PJ and IMO 2 vol or passive blend are near worthless in this pup config.

I'd go active blend if i really wanted to have tone options.

 

[sunbeast]

A blend pot adds no more loading to the circuit than two volume pots. It's effectively two volume pots stacked.

The original question was comparing pros/cons of a Blend/volume/tone vs pickup selector/volume/tone so that was my original response. I suggested volume/volume/tone as an alternative which has less pots than blend/volume/tone. Do you use a blend without a 3rd volume? The OP is talking about a bass with a master volume and tone, so assuming those are going to stay when using the blend or switch. With dual volumes one rarely also uses a master volume, so you end up with less loading. With a pickup switch you end up with only a single volume. In both cases less loading than the typical blend/volume/tone setup (unless you compensate with larger value pots in the case of the Blend configuration )

 

[Antreoo]

I have basses with VVT, VTVT, VBlendT and VToggleT.
In the grand scheme of things, I tend to use N soloed or N+B equal about 98% of the time. Soloed bridge is rarely used, unless the pickup is in the Ric or Stingray spot.
For my purposes, I like a master volume and prefer the toggle just a touch more than the blend. Finer blends are lost in my situations.
I do have one bass with WalterW's ungrounded blend (250K M/N). It's my favorite blend scheme.

This.
I want just one volume so VVT is not my thing, a blend pot might allow for more nuances but most of the time I end up using it full neck pickup or both 50/50 so a 3 way switch is more practical for me.
A 4 way rotary swtich with Neck; Series, Parallel, bridge is even better, but a 3 way + push/pull works too!

 

[Turnaround]

The original question was comparing pros/cons of a Blend/volume/tone vs pickup selector/volume/tone so that was my original response. I suggested volume/volume/tone as an alternative which has less pots than blend/volume/tone. Do you use a blend without a 3rd volume? The OP is talking about a bass with a master volume and tone, so assuming those are going to stay when using the blend or switch. With dual volumes one rarely also uses a master volume, so you end up with less loading. With a pickup switch you end up with only a single volume. In both cases less loading than the typical blend/volume/tone setup (unless you compensate with larger value pots in the case of the Blend configuration )

Quite right. I was just comparing one blend pot with two volume pots.

I actually prefer a pickup selector switch. I find that there is very little rotation of the blend knob that provides much audible blend - it sonically goes from one pickup very slightly favoured to one pickup soloed very suddenly, and the bit of blend is so subtle in a band mix as to be mostly pointless. So a switch for me.

 

[Brian Patterson]

A blend pot wired the traditional way is essentially like two volume controls added to the circuit, and adds a significant amount of loading if you are using passive pickups- the consequence of loading is a slightly darker sound, regardless of blend settings. Personally I prefer the dual volume setup for blending as I'll rarely use a master volume knob anyway on a passive bass. Dual volumes gives you a bit more adjustment room (physically, since you have the full sweep of both pots to dial in different mixes), and you can remove the third level control (master volume) for less loading. Switches also don't work for me most of the time as I like the sounds from partial pickup blends.

Agreed - this is exactly what I've learned too and how I'm setting my custom stereo bass up. Anthony at EMG is drawing up the diagram and spec'ing the parts for it.
Active pickups can be boosted or cut - passive can only be cut. For that reason I'm on the active trail for my bass build to avoid all that voodoo creative wiring does to a passive instrument. A blend would work 'correctly' on an active bass - not so much on a passive.

 

[Yahboy]

3 Way Toggle
Pros: Quick, definite settings
Cons: limited to 3 choices

Blend Pot
Pros: variable settings between neck and bridge pickup
Cons: slower to find/.reset desired blend

Others ???

Blend has more flexibility on tone tweak, but 3 way switch work faster , and the the neck P pickups sound more close to real Pbass on PJ when use A500K for both volume pot.

 

[eeyorebass]

I actually prefer a pickup selector switch. I find that there is very little rotation of the blend knob that provides much audible blend - it sonically goes from one pickup very slightly favoured to one pickup soloed very suddenly, and the bit of blend is so subtle in a band mix as to be mostly pointless. So a switch for me.

This is my experience. Whether two volumes or a blend, I still end up with 3 useful settings, so a switch is faster.

What I want to do with my PJ is a three-way switch where the middle position puts a resistor in line with the bridge pickup, so the three positions are: Neck - Neck with some Bridge - Bridge.

 

[sunbeast]

Quite right. I was just comparing one blend pot with two volume pots.

I actually prefer a pickup selector switch. I find that there is very little rotation of the blend knob that provides much audible blend - it sonically goes from one pickup very slightly favoured to one pickup soloed very suddenly, and the bit of blend is so subtle in a band mix as to be mostly pointless. So a switch for me.

I learned in the midst of a recording years ago about the sonic difference between two pickups on full and one rolled just slightly down via recording with both settings and comparing, and at least for me there is a punchy sweet spot of tones just off center that I’m usually aiming for with a 2-pickup bass. In fact I rarely use both pickups full up on any 2-pickup bass as it loses punch to my ears (though I do use it all the time on guitars!)

 

[Bob_Ross]

On guitar, give me a 3-way (or 5-way) toggle, please. But on bass, I definitely prefer a Blend pot…because I *never* use just one pickup, it’s always some particular blend of the two.

 

[Malak the Mad]

This is my experience. Whether two volumes or a blend, I still end up with 3 useful settings, so a switch is faster.

What I want to do with my PJ is a three-way switch where the middle position puts a resistor in line with the bridge pickup, so the three positions are: Neck - Neck with some Bridge - Bridge.

On guitar, give me a 3-way (or 5-way) toggle, please. But on bass, I definitely prefer a Blend pot…because I *never* use just one pickup, it’s always some particular blend of the two.

Funny thing...I was thinking about the settings I usually favor on my old P/J parts-bass; P = 100% and J = approximately 90%±10%. That, and for my noodling-at-home ears, sometimes the 90%/100% inverse is kinda nice, as well as both in series mode. Or, as I said in another thread, "The P-pup brings the meat and the J-pup adds the seasoning."

@eeyorebass; how much J-pup resistance do you think would work for you? As a variation on your idea, you've got me thinking of a rotary switch that would look something like this;

1. NECK = 100%, BRIDGE = 0%
2. NECK = 100%, BRIDGE = 90%¹
3. NECK + BRIDGE SERIES
4. NECK = 90%¹, BRIDGE = 100%
5. NECK = 0%, BRIDGE = 100%

¹: ...or whatever amount works best. To be determined before wiring everything up.

I have no idea if something like that would even be possible. I'm just thinking out loud. But, if someone knows one way or the other, please share your thoughts.

 

[SharpCat]

I’m on the case, ordered an allparts rotary switch. The 90% settings seem easy—just add inline a little ten turn pot, and the percentage is user adjustable.

My first pass at a schematic, Neck hot is tied to the output (which is master volume plus tone in a standard config. ) Neck ground is connected to the main ground only at switch positions where it should be on.

In contrast, bridge pickup, the ground is hard wired and the hot goes through the switch. Why? So we can route the ground side of the neck pickup into the hot side of the bridge pickup for setting 3, series config.

I’ll draw a real schematic once I’ve confirmed it works.

 

[eeyorebass]

Funny thing...I was thinking about the settings I usually favor on my old P/J parts-bass; P = 100% and J = approximately 90%±10%. That, and for my noodling-at-home ears, sometimes the 90%/100% inverse is kinda nice, as well as both in series mode. Or, as I said in another thread, "The P-pup brings the meat and the J-pup adds the seasoning."

@eeyorebass; how much J-pup resistance do you think would work for you? As a variation on your idea, you've got me thinking of a rotary switch that would look something like this;

1. NECK = 100%, BRIDGE = 0%
2. NECK = 100%, BRIDGE = 90%¹
3. NECK + BRIDGE SERIES
4. NECK = 90%¹, BRIDGE = 100%
5. NECK = 0%, BRIDGE = 100%

¹: ...or whatever amount works best. To be determined before wiring everything up.

I have no idea if something like that would even be possible. I'm just thinking out loud. But, if someone knows one way or the other, please share your thoughts.

Probably Neck = 100% and Bridge ~ 90% is what I'm after for my center position. My plan is to get a 100k trim pot instead of a fixed resistor, find the sweet spot, and leave it there. That should give me a range between 100%-50%, compared to the usual 250k pot.

I have read that using serial resistance this way can sound different when plugged into different rigs, so the sweet spot in one situation will be different in another. My signal chain is pretty consistent, and I don't have need to plug into different set ups. If I didn't change something and need to adjust, I could readjust the trim pot.

 

[calimariguy]

I prefer blend pots. Re: being able to recall settings, my solution is to just use knobs with indicator dots on them. Musiclily makes great ones.

 

[SharpCat]

The allparts switch is too deep, won’t fit in the cavity. Looking for another rotary switch.

 

[calimariguy]

Depending on the configuration of the other controls, the thing I like about a 3 way toggle is that it enables you to use it as a kill switch.

That can be really useful live, either between songs, or to control feedback in high gain situations.

It also allows you to get creative, with terminating :

(toggle on the bass during the verses)



(bass put through a DJ turntable mixer, and terminated from 3:38)



Personally, my gold standard for basses with two pickups, is Rickenbacker 4001 / 4003.

Best of both worlds, with pretty limitless flexibility (and that before you even get into push/pull tone caps, and stereo output).

Wasn't expecting to see the Beasties mentioned in a TB thread! That was a nice surprise. I've been a fan since I was eleven or twelve. I also had no idea that part at the end of "Pass the Mic" was a bass.

Also, for what it's worth, I always thought the Beastie Boys never really got the recognition they deserved as players.

 

[Bob_Ross]

Looking for another rotary switch.

I think I missed the part of this thread where rotary switches were introduced, so if this is way off-base (or already been mentioned) mea culpa

...but fwiw, I have a guitar with a rotary pickup selector (PRS) and I hate it. Worst ergonomics for pickup switching ever. An in-line blade switch (e.g., a Stratocaster) is more easily operated and offers far more tactile feedback about its current status.

 

[SharpCat]

I think I missed the part of this thread where rotary switches were introduced, so if this is way off-base (or already been mentioned) mea culpa

...but fwiw, I have a guitar with a rotary pickup selector (PRS) and I hate it. Worst ergonomics for pickup switching ever. An in-line blade switch (e.g., a Stratocaster) is more easily operated and offers far more tactile feedback about its current status.

Good info. I wonder if I can find a jazz control plate with the slot for a blade.

 

[Malak the Mad]

Good info. I wonder if I can find a jazz control plate with the slot for a blade.

I haven't done it myself, but I been wondering if it might work; have a Jazz-style control plate custom-cut from whatever pickguard material that's appropriate (mirrored for chrome or nickel, black acrylic for black, etc...) from someone like WD Music. I've had them omit a blade slot from a Fender Dimension pickguard, so I can't think of any reason why they couldn't include one in a control plate. They'd probably need a tracing of a control plate with the right number of holes and the slot drawn in, as well as how much bevel to add to the edges.

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As far as the tensile strength goes, some materials may be better than others, but if it works for a Precision bass, I would think it would work on a Jazz.