30” Scale Compact Semi-acoustic Fretless Bass Build

[dwizum]

I'm going to have to go look for the build thread on that other forum. How's it play unplugged?

 

[rudy4444]

I'm going to have to go look for the build thread on that other forum. How's it play unplugged?

When I first strung it up for a test drive I was surprised at how loud it was. I wasn't expecting to get much volume from it, and the game plan was to have something that was comfortable to pick up and play without needing to use amplification. It serves that function very well, with a volume just about halfway between what you get from a Tele or Strat and what you get from a standard acoustic guitar.

The unamplified tone is generally bright without a lot of bottom, but that's not my main interest from the build. My hope was that enough of the acoustic tone produced by the top would couple back to the strings through the bridge and be added to the basic tone produced by the strings through the pickup. That's most definitely happening with the tone when it's plugged in, so I'm pleased with the amplified tone.

The Acoustic Guitar Forum topic isn't a complete build topic but it has a few shots that capture some of the build. Here's the topic link if you care to read it; I will be adding further details and a demo video when it's buttoned up.

Invalid Link Removed

 

[Lunatique]

What a beautiful bass, and sounds amazing too. I'm a Rob Allen fan and what you built is similar in sensibility.

I'm curious--how much was the cost for all the material, and how many total man-hours it took to build? I have no knowledge or skill in woodworking (I only took a wood shop class in middle-school), but I love seeing other people's work.

 

[rudy4444]

What a beautiful bass, and sounds amazing too. I'm a Rob Allen fan and what you built is similar in sensibility.

I'm curious--how much was the cost for all the material, and how many total man-hours it took to build? I have no knowledge or skill in woodworking (I only took a wood shop class in middle-school), but I love seeing other people's work.

Thanks for the kind words.

The materials total was in the vicinity of $350 including gig bag. I purchased the Baggs transducer used from someone who removed it from a Gibson guitar to install a different pickup, so that saved money. I pick up a lot of my wood from local trees being removed and have it rough sawn at my local mill, so that also saves money. I AM notoriously "frugal", so I economize when I can.

Time-wise I did this a few hours at a time over a one month period, so it probably has somewhere between 40 and 50 hours of labor. This was a brand-new design for me so a lot of this time went into CAD work and setting up for specific tasks that require making the jigs, etc. The second one that only has the piezo bridge was much faster, probably around 30 hours total.

I build several types of instruments and other than the enjoyment of doing it I also appreciate I can have instruments that I would have a difficult time justifying the expense of otherwise. It's an almost guilt-free pleasure!

 

[alaskaleftybass]

Epic build!

 

[rudy4444]

Epic build!

Thanks, Will.
She's a sweet one, she is!

 

[chinjazz]

45. The truss rod channel is routed slightly deeper than the two way rod depth. I want to be able to pull the rod out from the heel end if there's ever a need to do that.
View attachment 2551712
46. The two way rod I have from Stewart-MacDonald has an Allen head adjustment screw that's slightly larger than the 7/32” width of the recommended channel size. I pulled the 7/32” router bit and swapped it for a 1/4” bit to make the channel a bit wider and deeper to accommodate the Stu-Mac adjusting screw. This also makes it easier to pull the rod length-wise from the truss rod channel should it ever become necessary to do so. The channel area above the adjustment screw could be fitted with a small section of wood filler strip to prevent the rod from moving lengthwise if desired, although I don't find it necessary to do that. Rod shown “upside down” to demonstrate checking the channel width necessary for the extra width of the rod screw.
View attachment 2551713
47. These patterns for radius jig guides are cut out from the full size “Neck Templates” pdf print and used to make identical wood guides to add to a strong and straight piece of hardwood that will hold the fingerboard blank. It will become clear how these guides work in later photos, but they basically space the fingerboard above the carbide router bit and the compound radius is formed by passing the entire jig over the bit and rocking it as it is held against the router table. It's safe to do this if you use a bit of common sense; the router bit only removing the small bit of excess material to create the arched top surface of the fingerboard. You can cut virtually any dimension of single or compound radius board by making a new set of guides. It's easier to show than to explain...
View attachment 2551714
48. Since this is a new guide I made a test piece the same size as my fingerboard blank to check the actual results before committing my ebony fingerboard blank.
View attachment 2551715
49. The guide next produced a very accurate and true ebony compound radius fingerboard. It will be cut to the proper taper and width after sanding to remove the lines left behind from the 5/8” diameter router bit. The radiused fingerboard is sanded to remove the slight imperfections left from routing. I'll show my sanding block a bit further along.
View attachment 2551716
50. A template for marking out the fingerboard line positions is made by carefully mating the sections cut from the full size printed pdf guide. (I'll supply those pdfs and others later after the build is complete for anyone who wants them.) Do check the zero to 12th to verify the 15” distance (half the scale length) is correct, but there should be no problem if the printed size is correct.
View attachment 2551717
51. The untrimmed fingerboard has fret slots cut so filler material can be added to make the lined fingerboard. Here's my "specialty" slotting saw, details to follow in step #52.
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52. I often get questions about my fret slotting setup. My saw is based on an inexpensive Kobalt sliding miter saw from Lowe's, sale priced under $100. A small special purpose slotting blade was purchased for around $10 from McMaster-Carr (Thurston Manufacturing Company #J-034 .023” wide by 2-3/4” diameter 1” arbor 72 teeth screw slotting blade McMaster-Carr #3062A31) and adapted to the saw using a reducing bushing and spacers fitted between the saw arbor flanges as shown. The saw has a simple adjustable depth stop; it works in conjunction with the maple bed so slot depth can be easily set. The board is left full width and the taper cut after slotting. The slot positions are marked directly on the board and the marked lines simply aligned to the cut in the rear fence. Easy-peasey! It has cut hundreds of letter-perfect slots requiring no tedious hand sawing, and I find it highly beneficial to be able to see the slots being cut. Over many years of slotting fretboards this is by far the best setup I've ever used. It's fairly compact and stores on an overhead shelf when it isn't being used.
View attachment 2551719

Hey Rudy,

I'm just about done with hand sawing fret slots, and book marked your post/thread for a rainy day.
While it isn't exactly raining outside, it is in my head . Wondering if you got the spacer/reducers for your miter saw @ McMaster-Carr as well? I'm starting to inventory what I need for my shift in workflow.

Thanks! ~Adam

 

[rudy4444]

Hey Rudy,

I'm just about done with hand sawing fret slots, and book marked your post/thread for a rainy day.
While it isn't exactly raining outside, it is in my head . Wondering if you got the spacer/reducers for your miter saw @ McMaster-Carr as well? I'm starting to inventory what I need for my shift in workflow.

Thanks! ~Adam

Hi Adam,
I did pick up the reducers to match the blade hole to the saw arbor size when I did my McMaster-Carr order. If you look closely in the photo you'll also see diamond-shaped spacers that fit on each side of the slotting blade. They were out of a set of arbor reducers that I picked up from my local big box store. The larger blade stabilizers that fit to each side of the slotting cutter are "dish shaped" so the diamond spacers are in there to hold the arbor reducer in place. Since the stabilizers are dish shaped they don't fit up against the slotting blade arbor reducer, so the diamond spacers prevent the arbor reducer from shifting out of the slotting blade hole.

It sounds complex, but it's easy to put together once you have all your parts and assemble everything.

I have a friend that does hobby instrument building and has borrowed my saw about a dozen times. He cut his first banjo board by hand and asked me if there wasn't a better way to slot boards. Once he did a board with my saw he became a total convert and said he can't imagine why more people aren't using this type of slotting saw.

It's one of those things that just make instrument building so much easier, especially considering the whole thing doesn't cost much more than what a dedicated slotting blade costs. It's also small and takes up little storage space in the shop.

 

[chinjazz]

Hi Adam,
I did pick up the reducers to match the blade hole to the saw arbor size when I did my McMaster-Carr order. If you look closely in the photo you'll also see diamond-shaped spacers that fit on each side of the slotting blade. They were out of a set of arbor reducers that I picked up from my local big box store. The larger blade stabilizers that fit to each side of the slotting cutter are "dish shaped" so the diamond spacers are in there to hold the arbor reducer in place. Since the stabilizers are dish shaped they don't fit up against the slotting blade arbor reducer, so the diamond spacers prevent the arbor reducer from shifting out of the slotting blade hole.

It sounds complex, but it's easy to put together once you have all your parts and assemble everything.

I have a friend that does hobby instrument building and has borrowed my saw about a dozen times. He cut his first banjo board by hand and asked me if there wasn't a better way to slot boards. Once he did a board with my saw he became a total convert and said he can't imagine why more people aren't using this type of slotting saw.

It's one of those things that just make instrument building so much easier, especially considering the whole thing doesn't cost much more than what a dedicated slotting blade costs. It's also small and takes up little storage space in the shop.

View attachment 4201341

Thanks for those details Rudy!

The other workflow change is when I would radius the board, and before slotting seems optimal (as you have). It would allow for any variation in how thick the board comes out to dial in for fret slot depth. Maybe I’m over thinking it, but it seems logical.

 

[spoonman69]

I know it‘s an old thread, but it‘s s great build thread anyway. Thanks, @rudy4444! Fantastic work!

 

[rudy4444]

I know it‘s an old thread, but it‘s s great build thread anyway. Thanks, @rudy4444! Fantastic work!

Thanks, Spoonman69.

Just like myself, hopefully being old doesn't relegate us to being irrelevant!

I tried to pack as many practical ideas as I could into the two major build topics I've posted, this one, and the "companion" fretted version (linked in the first post of this topic).

Thanks for the kind words!

 

[spoonman69]

You‘re so right regarding your comment about getting old.
As it‘s never too late, I‘m about to start my first build from scratch. Having no experience in wood-working, I‘ve decided to build a body only. But I see myself also doing a neck-build, once I will have a bit more experience (maybe next year?).

In order to prepare myself for the aforementioned build, I‘m regularly sneaking around the Luthiers corner since quite a while, in search for information, which there is plenty of, provided by all you great people, who willingly share your experiences. That‘s pure gold! Thank you!

May I ask you, why you have build the template for the neck pocket out of 3 pieces? Really curious to know.

 

[rudy4444]

You‘re so right regarding your comment about getting old.
As it‘s never too late, I‘m about to start my first build from scratch. Having no experience in wood-working, I‘ve decided to build a body only. But I see myself also doing a neck-build, once I will have a bit more experience (maybe next year?).

In order to prepare myself for the aforementioned build, I‘m regularly sneaking around the Luthiers corner since quite a while, in search for information, which there is plenty of, provided by all you great people, who willingly share your experiences. That‘s pure gold! Thank you!

May I ask you, why you have build the template for the neck pocket out of 3 pieces? Really curious to know.

The neck pocket routing guide is made from 3 sections because each section can be close fitted the neck, ensuring that the pocket is exactly identical to the neck that has been made.
HERE is a slightly different version of that technique that might be easier to understand if the ones here on Talkbass are proving to be a bit confusing to you.

 

[spoonman69]

Thank you!

 

[freshbass]

The back story; a rather severely "pulverized” collarbone incident a few years back left me with discomfort when playing my normal 34” scale bass (or my upright, obviously…) for any length of time. Bass isn't my primary instrument, but I've put in a few years as a paid bass player in a few bands and fill in occasionally if the gig seems like a good fit. I discovered the only way to get through an entire gig comfortably was to capo up a few positions on my fretless, and I soon realized a “short scale” bass was going to be necessary if I wanted to continue playing with any level of comfort involved. Hence, this project.

As background, I've only built two electric basses and a couple of EUB's in the past, but I've actively built instruments of various types for many years and maintained an educational website dedicated to musical instrument construction for close to 20 years. I had provided instrument plans and instructional materials for many years but I have since “retired” and dropped my website permanently mid-2016, although some of the free informational material is still available through the Internet Archive Project (Wayback Machine) here:

Bluestem Strings Home

This topic is meant to archive my latest compact bass project start to finish, with the intention of passing along a few of the details of how I build in a relatively small home shop using relatively modest tools. I'm really all about “frugal”, so I think my methodology may be of interest to a few of you who have more modest shops. In some cases I'll show a couple of different ways of doing the same thing to possibly stimulate your “Hey, I can do that...” D.I.Y. gene.

NOTE for 2021: I have since posted a "Short Scale Fretted P Bass Build" that can be found at the following link if that's more to your liking.

Building A Short Scale P Bass

Since I no longer have my own dedicated server space I'm going to do the best I can to do this topic in a way that will keep photos linked to the discussion, and depending on the level of interest I'll have to make a judgment call on how lengthy the entire topic will be and the level of detail that folks might be interested in. I'm not new to doing “photo-logged” topics, so I know the number of photos that might end up here. Still, I'll try to cover as many details as possible without getting overly verbose. I'll try to stick to explanatory text followed by a photo as a convention for my entries. Hopefully there will be some discussion generated during the process that I can participate in. I DO hope it will be a free-for-all discussion; isn't that the whole purpose of the D.I.Y. ethic?

For anyone who might want to try their hand at this design I'll provide the full plan as a pdf, as well as pdfs that can be printed out and tiled to make full size patterns where necessary. When I had my own server space it was no problem to just provide a download link, but for a TalkBass discussion I'll have to figure out a way to do that, so bear with me. I'll include the plans as a direct pdf attachment directly to the discussion, although I may have to do something like a Dropbox link. That will have to wait until I work through all the little things that may or may not pop up that might require changes to the basic drawing so I can distribute it in a complete and tested form.

I'm also doing the posts at a rate that doesn't make it overwhelming for either me or anyone following the topic.

I have a few specific ideas that I want to integrate into this build, so I'll have to do the basic design work with that in mind. Beyond the 30” scale and tape wound strings I'm also working to create as much acoustic energy as possible that will mechanically couple to the bridge transducer to be ultimately amplified. I'm doing this by creating a body from 1/4” thick carved solid wood plates applied to a central body section having a large portion of its center open to create the acoustic chamber. I'm aware that this runs counter to the conventional logic of having a solid central portion from neck to bridge to create maximum sustain, but I'm really going for more of an upright bass tone for this design.

Toward that goal, I'm applying string energy directly to the top by way of the piezo-equipped bridge and picking up some of that body resonance back through the bridge piezo to create the output signal. That's part number one of the formula, the second is having a completely independent magnetic signal available to use as is or to combine with the piezo bridge transducer if that's desirable.

Since the amount of acoustic energy created by the top plate is going to be limited I'm going to have to use a mounting option for the pickup other than attaching its mass directly to the top, which would severely limit its ability to create acoustic energy. I'm going to solve that by attaching the pickup to the back plate and have it extend through an opening in the top plate, basically floating the magnetic pickup.

In any case, I know I'm going to get a perfectly functional bass out of this and the jury will remain out on exactly how well my ideas work out until it is finished and used with an amp. On that front we shall see.

I need something to officially call this and some specifications to work up a plan:

Bluestem 30 Semi-acoustic Fretless Bass

Compact design with 38” overall length and 30” scale length
Walnut body with chambered central layer between carved top and back plates
Top plate features mirrored bass clefs as sound ports
Strings retained by body with recesses to house ball ends
Hip Shot Ultra-light tuners
Ebony headstock overlay with inlaid mother of pearl logo
Walnut neck with two way truss rod
Lined ebony compound radius board with small position markers and side dots
Completely independent pickups with separate 1/4” output jacks
Single magnetic pickup with top mounted volume control
(magnetic pickup used here is a Guitar Fetish MM style because it's in the spare parts box)
L.R. Baggs Element active pre-amp under saddle transducer with top mounted volume control
(under saddle transducer used here is a Baggs Element because it's in the spare parts box)
Recessed Dunlop Strap-loc strap buttons
Black nylon tapewound strings ( LaBella 760N .060”, .070”, .094”, and .115” )
Gator 4G gig bag

Having built “non-standard” designs in the past, I knew it was preferable to obtain a standard type of gig bag prior to finalizing my build parameters to make certain that there would be no difficulty for others to find an inexpensive and appropriately sized high quality gig bag. I also have a local sawyer that I work with, so the walnut I'm using was cut a few years ago from a neighbor's farm and stacked in my storage area for drying. Since I'm “frugal” I chose my stack of walnut to build with.

Why “Bluestem” on the headstock? It's a custom logo left over from my days of making custom lap steels. Andy DePaule at Luthiersupply.com supplied me with batches of these and I use one occasionally just so the leftovers don't go to waste. I also get to demonstrate how to add an inlay into the headstock overlay using a unique (and easy) method.

1. The idea is to turn what's shown below into a bass. A bit of research, digging into my spare parts box, and a few orders for stuff I didn't have on hand. Sweetwater for the Gator 4G bag, TubeDepot for the full size high quality 25K pot that will replace the tiny soundhole mount volume control for the Baggs Element under saddle pickup and preamp system that I already had in my spare parts box. Special thanks for answered questions, LaBella Black tape wound strings, and Hipshot tuners goes out to Jason from BassStringsOnline.com. What a guy!

View attachment 2549934

2. Next up was a bit of computer time to draw up the plan with CAD software. I've been using CAD for quite a few years, so it wasn't difficult. The body design started by importing a photo of one of my favorite bass designs, scaling the photo and then tracing a curved line over it for a basic shape. I then modified the body shape it to suit what I wanted in the final design. It's easy to do with CAD, as you simply grab a few points along the body shape and move it to get what you want. The asymmetric headstock design was copied, pasted, and re-sized from a plan for a banjo design I've been recently working with.

View attachment 2549935

Edit: For those wishing access to the final version of the plan shown above, it's available as a PDF attachment in post #77.

3. I converted the body portion of the drawing into 4 pdfs (I'll supply them here later, of course) that could be printed and assembled into a full size body shape template. This was traced on some scrap plywood to make the full size template. It is also used to hold the arched body for some of the work. The full drawing has the body superimposed over a 18” by 12” grid if someone would want to reproduce the body shape “old school”.

View attachment 2549936
I'll post more as time permits!
Do jump in and let me know if there's any interest.

very interested! At 69 w/ various injuries + severe arthritis i can no longer play my old fender basses or upright bass, and use 30" ss basses exclusively and am looking for a fretless 30" archtop , not a rob allen mouse,

 

[rudy4444]

very interested! At 69 w/ various injuries + severe arthritis i can no longer play my old fender basses or upright bass, and use 30" ss basses exclusively and am looking for a fretless 30" archtop , not a rob allen mouse,

I believe there are a few other short scale semi-hollow "archtop" basses documented on the forum. Rob Allen's Mouse figured into my formula for building this bass. I believe Rob has retired now.

Have fun in seeking out what lets you play comfortably, the short scale length basses are certainly much better for me.