Know this for next time. Nobody asks VW "can you learn the songs?"
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30 song live audition - Not much fun for me
- Thread starter oldrocker
- Start date
I was surprised when I got towards the bottom of the OP and saw you got paid. I was sure this was turning into a "30-song audition for you and a free sub for that gig our bass player can't make for them" story.
I'm mildly OCD, and I hate not feeling properly prepared for a live performance. This band's more lackadaisical approach would cause me considerable anxiety going into a gig. My preference would be to have at least one full band rehearsal, with chord charts supplied. My absolute minimum would be an email with the complete list of the songs they planned to play (so I can find them online), and indicating the key they play them in, and anything they do differently (different tempo, feel, non-standard arrangement, etc.) - plus enough time to learn them all.
I'm mildly OCD, and I hate not feeling properly prepared for a live performance. This band's more lackadaisical approach would cause me considerable anxiety going into a gig. My preference would be to have at least one full band rehearsal, with chord charts supplied. My absolute minimum would be an email with the complete list of the songs they planned to play (so I can find them online), and indicating the key they play them in, and anything they do differently (different tempo, feel, non-standard arrangement, etc.) - plus enough time to learn them all.
You did quite a lot of work on short notice, and handled their sub-par communication, poor attitudes, and unwillingness to provide flexibility.
All for $60.
Their expectations tell me that, yes, they are in need of a total pro -- which you clearly stated that you were not -- to step in and shine (with little work on their part, and to fulfill high expectations while navigating tricky arrangements with no cues).
However, their actions on the gig -- and the pay -- tell me that they are highly unlikely to retain one.
I would not be surprised if you heard back from them down the road -- at which point you would need to be honest with yourself about what you are willing to tolerate in a band and what you aren't.
All for $60.
Their expectations tell me that, yes, they are in need of a total pro -- which you clearly stated that you were not -- to step in and shine (with little work on their part, and to fulfill high expectations while navigating tricky arrangements with no cues).
However, their actions on the gig -- and the pay -- tell me that they are highly unlikely to retain one.
I would not be surprised if you heard back from them down the road -- at which point you would need to be honest with yourself about what you are willing to tolerate in a band and what you aren't.
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- Dec 21, 2007
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It really sounds like a not fun situation. You came, you tried it, you don't need the complaining.
At least you got paid, time to move on and forgettaboutit. You did everything right and they did everything wrong. For me the tip-off that they were burn outs would've been the 'we never practice' line. When I hear that line, I bail period. IME, It always means the same thing. They have a bunch of tunes they've all played for years, are stuck in a rut, and they're not going to put forth the effort to practice or learn new tunes. However, they expect whoever comes in to put in the effort.
If they're not into music enough to rehearse, learn new tunes , and get better, I'm not wasting my time with them, and you shouldn't either. Too many bands need bass players amd life's too short to put up with musical BS.
Keep Low
^This.
In addition, I can't imagine myself walking on to a stage with someone I've never played with or even heard play, especially if they told me that they weren't a musician. I agree whole-heartedly. This is not a band you want to be working with. Don't let them get you down.
This is related to a mistake many make, not just in music:
If you're looking for a bass player, for example, you need to see how they will perform in their comfort zone, not in yours, and this usually means long term commitment or at least longer than three days. I've learned that lesson many times over when looking for members of my own bands.
Say you need someone to play 30 songs three days from now:
-guy A comes and he's pretty good, find his way quickly and sounds good
-guy B comes and is not tragic, but occasionally fumbles it
Guy A is better, right?
The truth is, there's no way to tell in the short term.
Some musicians rely on their good ear and experience and can find their way quickly, only for you to discover that is what their musical ceiling is, as that is what they enjoy and they're unwilling to put any additional effort beyond that.
Others rely on hard work to get the songs right and boy do they get it right once they do.
This whole "come straight to a gig and sink or swim" approach is really counterproductive.
If you want to try someone out, talk with them about the most complex songs you cover, find one or two they never played and have them come to a rehearsal in a day or two and you'll see how thorough their approach to songs is (or isn't) or if they're VW and can jam through all of them and have them sound better than the originals, but I wouldn't hold my breath for that last one.
If you're looking for a bass player, for example, you need to see how they will perform in their comfort zone, not in yours, and this usually means long term commitment or at least longer than three days. I've learned that lesson many times over when looking for members of my own bands.
Say you need someone to play 30 songs three days from now:
-guy A comes and he's pretty good, find his way quickly and sounds good
-guy B comes and is not tragic, but occasionally fumbles it
Guy A is better, right?
The truth is, there's no way to tell in the short term.
Some musicians rely on their good ear and experience and can find their way quickly, only for you to discover that is what their musical ceiling is, as that is what they enjoy and they're unwilling to put any additional effort beyond that.
Others rely on hard work to get the songs right and boy do they get it right once they do.
This whole "come straight to a gig and sink or swim" approach is really counterproductive.
If you want to try someone out, talk with them about the most complex songs you cover, find one or two they never played and have them come to a rehearsal in a day or two and you'll see how thorough their approach to songs is (or isn't) or if they're VW and can jam through all of them and have them sound better than the originals, but I wouldn't hold my breath for that last one.
I am new to bass. But i have been playing drums seemingly since time began. I could pull of a gig like this on drums without a thought, and even enjoy it. But on Bass.... I wouldn't have the nerve to try it, at least not at the point I am at in my development. The problem is that the band was so familiar with what they were playing that they didn't realize how hard it is to an outsider.
I was asked to just play walking bass lines for a square dance caller a while back. While most callers just sing to records, this guy liked to play his music on guitar. When we met, He just quickly listed what songs, and the chord progressions... I was used to Prog Rock, not bluegrass country. I never heard of any of the songs. I chose to pass on the gig. We stayed friends and a while later after i learned some of the songs, I did play with him, and a second rhythm guitar, but just as a gratis guest appearance, on a couple songs, not as part of a band. I know that I'm not ready for a trial by fire.
It sounds as if the OP band gigs were little more than public Jam sessions. If that was the case, they were getting paid to just play old favorites, they were selling memories not great music. In that case, then faking it would have been ok. Root notes until you figure out the chord progressions would have worked. But i agree that to lay off a song entirely doesn't work.
It sounds like you are ready for a band that is willing to work songs out, but not yet ready for a trial by fire. I would say to stay out of the fire until you are ready.
I was asked to just play walking bass lines for a square dance caller a while back. While most callers just sing to records, this guy liked to play his music on guitar. When we met, He just quickly listed what songs, and the chord progressions... I was used to Prog Rock, not bluegrass country. I never heard of any of the songs. I chose to pass on the gig. We stayed friends and a while later after i learned some of the songs, I did play with him, and a second rhythm guitar, but just as a gratis guest appearance, on a couple songs, not as part of a band. I know that I'm not ready for a trial by fire.
It sounds as if the OP band gigs were little more than public Jam sessions. If that was the case, they were getting paid to just play old favorites, they were selling memories not great music. In that case, then faking it would have been ok. Root notes until you figure out the chord progressions would have worked. But i agree that to lay off a song entirely doesn't work.
It sounds like you are ready for a band that is willing to work songs out, but not yet ready for a trial by fire. I would say to stay out of the fire until you are ready.
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I've done this kind of thing before, but only with musician friends. Audition gig where people are being snippy with me? No thanks.
This is the truth. Same ish, different day.
OP, good for you doing it and hopefully learning from it. At least you got paid right away. Nothing like trying to collect days after the fact from some bums.
OP: You communicated, you turned up on time, you prepared to the extent time and resources allowed, you collected your pay. That's a fine effort all round in my book.
As for your efforts in learning the material - time spent learning a song is almost never time wasted, no matter the circumstances. Maybe those songs will come up again in the future. Maybe you've honed your learning skills a bit. Maybe your ear is in better shape than when you started. That's all good stuff.
As for your efforts in learning the material - time spent learning a song is almost never time wasted, no matter the circumstances. Maybe those songs will come up again in the future. Maybe you've honed your learning skills a bit. Maybe your ear is in better shape than when you started. That's all good stuff.
So they never called you back and took you off their FB group, eh?
Here is a picture of you dodging a bullet...!
Here is a picture of you dodging a bullet...!
You sound a lot like me, not great, so rely on lots of practice to play well. These guys seems very loose with their playing- either they are pros and can pull that off, or are downright awful and could care less. Either way, it doesn't sound like a good match for you. I'd keep looking. Congrats on relocating from New Yuck.
This. OP can learn a lot from the responses here about expectations, in both directions. You can "hope for the best" -- charts, rehearsals -- but be prepared for the worst; leader calling tunes on stage that you've never heard of that are not on the list, if there even is a list, etc.
If your level of anxiety over the numerous variables in a situation like this is too high, then this kind of gig is a big "avoid" for you.
I responded to a CL ad for a jump blues band, a gig that would be in my wheelhouse. Phone calls went well but there was not time for a rehearsal before the next gig, at one of the city's premiere genre venues. Promised email with set list(s) with keys never arrived, I showed up for first gig not knowing one tune in the possible repertoire. Fortunately, the gig went very well. On the few tunes that I was not familiar with, the bandleader/singer deftly cued me with behind-the-back hand signals.
It was a little bit of them being unprofessional but having high hopes/expectations of what I could handle walking in cold and, lucky for all of us, having their expectations fulfilled.
The guys in the OPs band sound like sad sacks to me, whiners. Prolly just as well that it didn't work out.
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I've done my share of last minute sub gigs. I learned 100 tunes in 5 days while juggling a 2 month old once(mom was just easing back in to work). It's stressful in the moment but can be a good learning experience. You put in a lot of work and exposed yourself to tunes you didn't know, therefore expanding your musical knowledge. You also learned a little bit about how you can be helpful to other musicians through experiencing unhelpful behavior.
that's the part that always get me about this kind of story. Musicians act like "if he/she is a pro they should know ________" but just a little help and courtesy can make everyone's life easier in the moment.
that's the part that always get me about this kind of story. Musicians act like "if he/she is a pro they should know ________" but just a little help and courtesy can make everyone's life easier in the moment.
This is absolutely inexcusable. There are about 10,000 easy songs that everyone knows. If you have to, you throw in Mustang Sally, Johnny B. Goode, or any of the other easy songs everyone knows and the audience loves.
You dodged a bullet, they sound like jerkweasels.
they can expect that. there are people who gig like that all the time.
There are videos of Dream Theater auditioning for a new drummer. Absolute pros that play for a living, they had a couple weeks to prepare 4 songs - songs where you can download the correct versions.
I'm playing 5 church services next weekend. 3 of them I have all the tunes - charts, mp3's, etc. For 2 of them, I'll get details - hopefully today. As I know much of the genre, I expect at most 3 new tunes, I will have charts and mp3's for everything, and I have 5 days to learn new stuff and polish what I already know. I do this a lot - this is more than I usually have to prepare, but it's reasonable.
30 songs in a short time frame, without charts for some? They got out of it what they put into it. You didn't mess up, they did.
I'm playing 5 church services next weekend. 3 of them I have all the tunes - charts, mp3's, etc. For 2 of them, I'll get details - hopefully today. As I know much of the genre, I expect at most 3 new tunes, I will have charts and mp3's for everything, and I have 5 days to learn new stuff and polish what I already know. I do this a lot - this is more than I usually have to prepare, but it's reasonable.
30 songs in a short time frame, without charts for some? They got out of it what they put into it. You didn't mess up, they did.
wow... that's ridiculous. sixty dollars? why would you agree to do ANY of this for that?
