30 song live audition - Not much fun for me

[mrcbass]

OP - Sounds like you're new to subbing. Unfortunately, it often goes like this - if you let it. Hopefully you learned a few lessons out of the experience about the sub game. I'm not the most experienced bassist or sub man but here are a few takeaways, some of which have been pointed out in previous posts:

You need to have some level of comfort - especially for a $60 gig. You have as much control about this as you need as long as you direct the traffic.

First you need to have an idea of how much material you can learn in a day and you need to make sure you have the time to meet their needs. If their timeline is not at least close to what you can do, then you just need to say "Sorry, that's not enough time for me to prepare." It's not your fault they waited until the last minute to start securing a band member. I spend as much time communicating with the contact regarding specific song questions as I need to be comfortable. I can typically transpose on the fly on a lot of songs, but I don't like doing it. Most of the time, you don't need to be a great bassist (I'm surely not) to pull off a sub gig - you just need to be able to get to a functional level on the songs quickly and be able to adapt to whatever the rest of the band is doing.

Second, assuming you're comfortable with the timeline, insist on a complete set list including: name of artist and key Bonus pointed for getting a specific youtube link. Insist on that to be delivered in a time frame that allows you to stay in your timeline. There should also at least be an indication of mashups and I always ask about "special arrangements". I typically get "Just like the cover man", but at least you asked and you can then just shrug when you miss a turn when they didn't tell you their arrangement.

One of the things that allows me to be comfortable with subbing and quick prep is the use of a tablet with notes on it. When talking a gig like this, I always tell them that I'll need the notes on stage to pull this off. I've never been told that wasn't OK - the alternative is a "Sorry, don't have time to memorize - I have to pass".

When learning any new song - especially for a quick prep sub gig - I'll create an outline chart that I can follow at a glance while on stage. I find that bassists can get away with a lot in regards to specific lines - as long as I know the form, I can get through just about anything with very few run-throughs at home to find some positions. This is less true with songs I've never heard, so I'll tend to focus most of my practice time on those - just trying to get them in my ears.

I think the one thing you really had the power over was knowing that their approach to a gig doesn't align with yours. You had the chance to see them in action (rare from my perspective), and you knew that they didn't approach songs in the way you like to. For $60, I would have easily passed on this knowing their attitudes about how to prepare for gigs. For reference, a $60 share is pretty typical for most of my normal gigs - all of my sub gigs have paid better - as a sub, I am bailing them out of a jam and should be paid for the week or so of scrambling to be ready. Working full time doesn't leave a lot of hours for cramming. I'm not sure how much I'd have needed to commit to a situation I KNEW would be unpleasant.

Subbing can and should be fun. But it can be a lot of work and pressure filled, so it's not for everyone. It's typically not that much different than prepping for an audition - just more songs and you may be working with the band for the first time on stage. Just remember that you are evaluating them as they are you. It's perfectly fine to pass on an opportunity if you're not comfortable with the way they handle pre-gig communications. I will always have all the of the parameter agreed on (set list, arrangements, pay, etc) before I commit.

Sorry your experience wasn't great. They are not all like that, so if you want to get into being a sub, just learn how to control the situation in a professional way and start building up your personal catalog - the more songs you've at least worked through, the fewer "new" songs you'll run into.

 

[mikecd1]

I've done some gigs like this and usually if there's a good front man they will give you some hand signals for changes on anything you're fuzzy on or if you get to a point in a song you're getting lost on. I mean with only a day or two to bone up, what did they expect? If the grooves were good on the stuff you knew and there was some chemistry then maybe you feel like you gave it your best shot? Wouldn't sweat it either way, but if was all nerves no mojo then perhaps it was a bust. If you got some nice grooves in then move on and if the phone rings again take another gig. From what you described this was a pickup gig, not an invite to work on a sound and become a band.

 

[Bassngtr]

I am not a pro, but I have good experience and IMO I am quite good. I have worked my way through tough sub situations on the fly and lived to tell about it. Though I can do that, I like a little preparation. I play in a cover band; we are very good/tight and 50-75% off our set list is customized versions (xposed keys and/or format) of well known but little-heard rock/pop/country songs. There is no way another bassist (or any instrument) could sub for us w/o charts and a set list w/ keys. I take it on myself to do charts for all new songs we tackle (and we tackle a lot of new songs, maybe 30-50 a year). It helps me completely absorb the song, gives me ideas for making bass lines my own, and REALLY helps the band all get on the same page when getting the song cold.

An earlier post reminded me: a few years ago I was asked to play one song at church for a group doing a Christmas concert. 'Children Go Where I Send Thee' Natalie Merchant version. I had no info at all, except I was joining a group who would do the whole concert. After listening to the recording I realized the format was not straightforward - each refrain adds an "item" from the previous verses, so the refrain lengths were alternately "uneven", if you will. So I made a chart for myself, and brought copies for everyone, expecting no one would want/need them. EVERY other person, including the pianist, wanted copies. Though I was a last-minute addition to the concert for this one song, I was the only one who had any idea how the song should go. I was pretty happy with my contribution. Lesson learned.

 

[QweziRider]

your going to learn 2 songs with different arrangements in a different key in 20 minutes? you may have read it a few times but he says he couldn't see the guitarist.

I'd learn them the same way I learned the rest of the three sets of songs with different arrangements and different keys - pick one and go with it and I won't be caught with my pants down at show time when things are different. That way, I'm familiar enough with the song to roll with the differences when I hear them hit. I kind of thought that's was a bit obvious since it's exactly what I and many other players have to do with the sub work we do when we don't always get what we need in a timely manner. It's not at all uncommon in my work to end up with different keys and versions and having at least worked up a version of the song was a great help, keeping me from having to lay out.

As to the "watching of hands", I wrote that in response to the OP before I saw what he said later about being behind the other players, didn't care to go back and edit my comment. The part about "listening" still applies when a player can't see the finger positions. If one listens as the song goes, one can still see hand movement - if not the actual position - and that's a clue that something is about to change again that one probably already heard previously in the song. If I at least take the time to listen to the song prior in my own practice, I know changes are coming where a simple movement of the guitarist's or keyboardist's hands indicate the change. I've spent a large amount of time behind other players on stage where all I get is the movement of their hand as my cue.

Plus, the part about standing behind the players was not in the OP. So if you want to slam me for saying "I read it (the OP) multiple times" and somehow missed the part about not seeing the guitarist...

 

[LBS-bass]

I'd learn them the same way I learned the rest of the three sets of songs with different arrangements and different keys - pick one and go with it and I won't be caught with my pants down at show time when things are different. That way, I'm familiar enough with the song to roll with the differences when I hear them hit. I kind of thought that's was a bit obvious since it's exactly what I and many other players have to do with the sub work we do when we don't always get what we need in a timely manner. It's not at all uncommon in my work to end up with different keys and versions and having at least worked up a version of the song was a great help, keeping me from having to lay out..

The elephant in this room is that some people have the ear to play like this and some don't. If you're depending on your eyes and your knowledge of theory rather than what your ears are telling you, probably best to stay away from these kinds of gigs. If your ear is developed enough that you can hear where on the fretboard you need to move to when there's a key change or a song starts in an unexpected key, you're going to have an easier time with this.

Just like Victor Wooten said in that video.

 

[QweziRider]

The elephant in this room is that some people have the ear to play like this and some don't. If you're depending on your eyes and your knowledge of theory rather than what your ears are telling you, probably best to stay away from these kinds of gigs. If your ear is developed enough that you can hear where on the fretboard you need to move to when there's a key change or a song starts in an unexpected key, you're going to have an easier time with this.

Just like Victor Wooten said in that video.

As always, dead on. And I know some of us have much more experience at just that, which is why I tried earlier to point this all to being an educational opportunity for the OP rather than be harsh. I'd say nearly all of us have been through one experience or another along these lines and had to take away from it "what can I do differently" rather than put it all on the band. Music is all-encompassing with our skills. And if some of those skills fail us or are not useful in the moment, listening to everything around us is a good point to try and recover.

 

[two fingers]

I only got through chapter 2. It's a page turner for sure. But I gotta go do some work. I'll swing back later and see if I can finish the book in two sittings.

 

[LBS-bass]

As always, dead on. And I know some of us have much more experience at just that, which is why I tried earlier to point this all to being an educational opportunity for the OP rather than be harsh. I'd say nearly all of us have been through one experience or another along these lines and had to take away from it "what can I do differently" rather than put it all on the band. Music is all-encompassing with our skills. And if some of those skills fail us or are not useful in the moment, listening to everything around us is a good point to try and recover.

Exactly! Most of us have to have quite a bit of experience in order to tackle something like this.

The band could have been more forgiving; expecting someone to learn three sets of material on short notice for $60 is way out of left field, and then not being willing to work with that person on the couple of things he didn't get to is just being a d*ck. There are other songs you can substitute in, nobody's set list is carved in granite, at least not any show that you're getting $60 for. And if you can't substitute, you help the person out by calling changes or showing your hands. None of that is the OPs fault. He was in a tough situation with people who didn't care if he failed and didn't care enough about their own show to help him not fail.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

I only got through chapter 2. It's a page turner for sure. But I gotta go do some work. I'll swing back later and see if I can finish the book in two sittings.

Band and OP were looking for differing levels of structure. It didn't work out, but it wasn't worth the pay anyways.

 

[two fingers]

Band and OP were looking for differing levels of structure. It didn't work out, but it wasn't worth the pay anyways.

Cliff notes! Much appreciated!

 

[Boundary Effect]

The band is what it is. If they tend to put on good shows, have a decent following and a good cache of venues they play regularly, who's to argue about their method. I'm a long time keyboard player who has ventured into bass playing. Primary quality necessary for a good bass player IMO,... mettle. The bass player is driving the band. One doesn't and may not be able to know all the notes, all the changes. The job is holding the foundation together. It sounds as though that mindset was missing in the OP's experience.

 

[JRA]

oldrocker , i think you stated your case/intent in the OP, and i think you did your part --- you couldn't play two tunes! big whup! you suggested that part of this experience was just to put yourself 'out there' and test yourself a bit. i think you did that (hope you had some fun doing it!) and i think it would have gone a lot better if those folks had been more capable themselves. you did your best while they were posing.

don't stop! good luck!

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Recently relocated to Florida after living my entire life in NY and Long Island.

Really long story - not a rant just a story and I don't really feel better after telling it - lol

TL;DR - put a lot of prep into an unrehearsed show with a new band. No joy.

I placed a CL add and received a reply from a band - guitar drums and keys - looking for a bass player. I checked out their FB page and was able to find a couple of YT videos. They play 50s - 70s mostly. I'm more a late 60s - 70s classic rock, southern and blues rock guy but they seem to be able to get gigs in decent places, they play uncrowded outside shows mostly mostly safe so I figured what the heck.

I'm definitely no pro and not a great bass player so I usually rely on a lot of practice - I like to get songs tight so the band sounds good but they say they don't rehearse, which would usually be a red flag for me

So I arrange to go see them at a show, outside restaurant 2 seeks ago. They seem happy to meet me. I stay and watch a set and a half. They play very loose and do a lot of song mash ups or medleys and as I found out later play a lot of their own takes on the arrangements and play songs in a different key from the original recording. They ask me if I can play this stuff and I tell them I'm not a pro but yes I can play it. The songs themselves are not hard but I would have to learn them. They said that they understand that. There is a suggestion that I come and play with them in 2 weeks at another show. A couple of days later they invite to their closed FB group.

A week goes by, then Tuesday of last week 1 guy posts 3 sets and some extras for a show that Friday. I ask if they expect me to play that show, and the answer is Yes.

At my request the next day I get a list of the keys and some chord charts for most of the songs. I tell them I will look over the songs and that I will play the ones I think I know and lay out on the songs I'm sure I don't know. No response..

I've played a lot of songs over the years so typically when i get a new band set list there are about a third of the songs I've payed before, a third that I know but haven't played and about a third I'm not really familiar with a few that I've never even heard of. This list is skewed to 50s and early 60s but a similar mix and really nothing that difficult to play.

This is way out of my comfort zone but I figure what the heck, what's the worse that can happen. So I have basically 2 days to learn 3 sets of songs - some of the songs I had to track down to find the artists version of the song to listen to.

By the time of the show there are only 2 songs, 1 in set 2 and 1 in set 3 on the main list that I don't know at all that I'm planning on laying out on. I do know most of the extra songs.

We meet at the show, 1 guy is complaining that he pulled a stomach muscle, 1 guy hurt his back and can't move his neck and the other is just complaining, wishing he could hold a regular job so he would have to play shows like this. No joy or anticipation for a good show.

The first set is a little rough. To me, the songs that I know and that they stick mainly to the original arrangement sound pretty good. One song that this band comes in on different chord - They come in on the I instead of the IV from the original after the signature opening riff, so that one I had to play catch up. It was also tough flowing during the mash ups when the change over from 1 song to a really unrelated song seemingly at random mid beat. No train wrecks. They did restart 1 song that the guitar player came in on the wrong key.

No comments or words of encouragement after the 1st set so I'm thinking I might be in for a long night as I'm more familiar with the 1st set songs so the other 2 sets probably will not be as good.

After the 1st set set I tell they guy that sent me the charts and keys that I don't have one of the songs on the 2nd set. I have no clue how this song goes.. I suggest we can either sub one of the extra songs or I can lay out. He seems annoyed and tells me that it's too late for him to do anything about it now. That song comes up and they go right into it and I lay out as promised.

After the 2nd set set I tell them that there is another song in the 3rd set that I don't know. Now another guy is annoyed too. That's 2 out of 3 now. Luckily, turns out they didn't need all the 3rd set songs so they skipped this one when it came up.

After ending the 3rd set, even before finishing breaking down their stuff they payed me off and sent me on my way. I know how this is going to end but as a matter of course I them them it was fun and to let me know if they wanted to do it again some time. No eye contact, no real response.

2 days after the show I notice I've been removed from he private FB group.

--

We're not talking a lot of money and for me it's not about the money but really the fun of making music with others, of which there was very little here.

I am a bit bummed as I put a lot of work in a short amount of time, no appreciation and no joy.

I'm not beating myself up over this as I thought I did pretty good given the circumstances and I did what I told them I would do.

As I mention this was really out of my comfort zone as I like to practice and be rehearsed but took this on as it was safe, outdoors, and I wanted to play and after reading from a lot of TBers here that that typically play shows without any rehearsals I figured this was a low pressure situation to see if I could handle it.

--

I'm not sure what they expected, can / should they expect that a bass player can come in cold and play 3 sets - songs with different arrangements and keys, several unrelated mash ups or medleys??

Yeah, that would rum me the wrong way to, but I'm sure they aren't the only band in them.

Going forward if possible, go see the band at a gig and record their sets. In the bands I'm in we record gigs and rehearsals. A recording is worth a thousand words and reams of sheet music that may or not be accurate. It also speeds up a players ability to learn the material.

Sorry that one didn't work out. Sound like you know what your are doing and are willing to work at it. You'll touch down soon.

 

[coyote1]

I don't understand why people do this thing of waiting until the last minute to send out set lists to a sub. It's a setup for failure. Sorry this happened to you

This is where being a pro has incredible benefits. You don't do these jerk-around things. You sub in for a band, they provide you the charts/arrangements and set list. You scan the arrangements, and note any items where you have questions. You reach out to the bandleader, ask your questions, note the answers.

Then you show up for the gig, and things work.

 

[Aussie Player]

Most bands have no concept of professionalism and they fail accordingly.
I have not seen the "want" or the "dedication" to learn, prefect and manage the sound which is the product, when all is said and done since the 70's and mostly then because of youthful ignorance and the dream of "making it".

Many players today are tired and the dream is over. That is reflected in their attitudes and playing skills where it is obvious they don't play often outside of rehearsals which are seemingly endless with no goals or plans for marketing the band. The whole thing is less than it was.

The shame of it is that there are still some really great musicians out there with good gear, great attitude who love to play for the sheer enjoyment of listening to their instruments, the tones and contributing to the song. It is a fact that you have to sift through a lot of chaff to find the wheat. That is very tiresome as even if you look through CL and the other common cites, everyone says that are great players and they are not so that becomes another chaff item to sift through.

I worked with a Claptonesque guitarist with great vocals and playing skills for a decade and our 3 piece dream dies because after all that time, we could not find a drummer of equal skill or dedication. The one player we found that was truly pro level worked night shift (which kills playing out opportunity on Friday Nights) and his wife wanted him to stay home more so that killed that.

Keep trying, I do and will. Just don't give up. A good band is very hard to find/form but the pleasure and memories your will create that comes from it will last a lifetime.

 

[VolverseLoco]

I'm now in the Tampa bay area. It's very nice here.

Tampa Bay? I did the same thing you did, but I escaped NJ and landed in Largo, then 24 years later ended up hating it and moved to Vegas. Same palm trees scenery but no rain ever and no humidity problems. Where'd you play at , Shepherds or some other beach bar in Pinellas?

 

[ComeHomeShane]

So much wrong with this story, none of it your fault.

- You should have been compensated a good deal for that amount of work. For example, me personally, I would not have done that much work and a 3 set gig for less than $200-300. I understand you're coming at it from a different perspective, but just letting you know my personal minimum.
- These guys don't know what they want and have no clue what is a reasonable request from a sub.
- If you're in it to have fun and they're soul-sucking you on gig #1... no dice.
- By not telling you, "thanks but you're not the right fit for us," or something else cordial, indicates that you dodged a bullet. These are the same type of guys who would let you put a ton more work in, also with unreasonable expectations, and then drop you with zero respect.

 

[roccobass]

Recently relocated to Florida ...,

....,I'm not sure what they expected, can / should they expect that a bass player can come in cold and play 3 sets - songs with different arrangements and keys, several unrelated mash ups or medleys??

I hear you, buddy and read the entire post, but your last paragraph summed it up for me.

Been there myself. I think it was a destined to fail situation no matter what you did. It was very unfair to give you such a short timeframe to absorb so much material, especially too when they're changing up some of arrangements.

I learned from my past experiences. Most recent...Had a guy last year who wanted me to learn and perfect about 70 tunes for 3 set sub gig within 10 days. I was just doing a one sub gig.
When I questioned the wisdom of this, he became quite unreasonable. I declined the gig.

Truly, if it seems like a potential train wreck, it probably is. Something I learned the hard way. Good luck and keep on playing, buddy.

 

[bassliner50]

I'm still on Long Island. Each of our venues are closed because of covid19. Is it different in Fla?

 

[whero]

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