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3Leaf Audio Club - Episode 2

I'm honestly surprised at all the negative response and it's made me physically ill this morning so I'm gonna try my best to clear everything up.

The reason for the new company is to try some different ideas with branding. I wanted a brand that's just for bass players without any ambiguity. I was also getting really burned out and I needed a new creative outlet. It has nothing to do with "keeping the 3Leaf Audio name out of the muck" as there is no threat of legal action here. I'm not infringing on any trademarks and I didn't break any contracts. I'll still be running the 3Leaf brand, and that will be focused on all the fun and weird stuff I've always made, while Pike will be more utilitarian products for bass.

As to why the pedals look similar to the old USA-made DG pedals: Doug and I had a partnership and I designed those pedals. He came to me with the schematic for the audio section of the circuits, and I designed the bypass switching and did the physical designs. I also fronted the money for every production run and managed the entire production myself. I don't think most people realize how collaborative that partnership was...I wasn't just a hired gun if that was the impression that was given off. I won't get into the ending of that partnership other than to say that Darkglass stuck me with a few hundred enclosures that were already drilled for those pedals. I couldn't afford to just throw those away since I had already paid for them, so I had to come up with a design that would work in that box. I was originally thinking of making it a limited run just to get rid of the few hundred enclosures I had, but then Darkglass changed the look of their pedals to the point that my aesthetic design was no longer there, and it was a design I was really proud of so I wanted to 'reclaim' it so to speak. I obsess over the look and feel of the products I design and I didn't want to see my work die out with the end of that partnership.

Regarding the circuit: I wouldn't have done any of this if I were just going to copy Darkglass. I don't think it's fair to my customers to release a product that doesn't bring anything new to the table. The Vulcan circuit is inspired by my knowledge of the Darkglass circuits but taken in a direction that I think makes them appealing in a totally different way. I worked with those circuits for years so I learned what makes them sound good, but I also found lots of ways to change it to make it work more to my taste. The big difference with the Vulcan circuit is that it's actually two entire overdrive circuits in parallel that get blended together to form the complete sound. It's a very complex circuit design...the Vulcan circuit has 117 components and the XL has 173. In practice it sounds a lot different than a B3K or something like that, so I hope you guys get the chance to try one for yourself before just assuming that it's a ripoff since it has a similar look. I've spent most of the last year fine-tuning and obsessing over every detail of these pedals and I'm really excited about the results.

Sorry to be long-winded, but I needed to be thorough because all the speculation on here gave me an anxiety attack. It really wasn't my intent to ruffle any feathers. I'm currently putting the finishing touches on a series of onboard preamps with a really cool twist, and I think you guys will like them.
 
I'm honestly surprised at all the negative response and it's made me physically ill this morning so I'm gonna try my best to clear everything up.

The reason for the new company is to try some different ideas with branding. I wanted a brand that's just for bass players without any ambiguity. I was also getting really burned out and I needed a new creative outlet. It has nothing to do with "keeping the 3Leaf Audio name out of the muck" as there is no threat of legal action here. I'm not infringing on any trademarks and I didn't break any contracts. I'll still be running the 3Leaf brand, and that will be focused on all the fun and weird stuff I've always made, while Pike will be more utilitarian products for bass.

As to why the pedals look similar to the old USA-made DG pedals: Doug and I had a partnership and I designed those pedals. He came to me with the schematic for the audio section of the circuits, and I designed the bypass switching and did the physical designs. I also fronted the money for every production run and managed the entire production myself. I don't think most people realize how collaborative that partnership was...I wasn't just a hired gun if that was the impression that was given off. I won't get into the ending of that partnership other than to say that Darkglass stuck me with a few hundred enclosures that were already drilled for those pedals. I couldn't afford to just throw those away since I had already paid for them, so I had to come up with a design that would work in that box. I was originally thinking of making it a limited run just to get rid of the few hundred enclosures I had, but then Darkglass changed the look of their pedals to the point that my aesthetic design was no longer there, and it was a design I was really proud of so I wanted to 'reclaim' it so to speak. I obsess over the look and feel of the products I design and I didn't want to see my work die out with the end of that partnership.

Regarding the circuit: I wouldn't have done any of this if I were just going to copy Darkglass. I don't think it's fair to my customers to release a product that doesn't bring anything new to the table. The Vulcan circuit is inspired by my knowledge of the Darkglass circuits but taken in a direction that I think makes them appealing in a totally different way. I worked with those circuits for years so I learned what makes them sound good, but I also found lots of ways to change it to make it work more to my taste. The big difference with the Vulcan circuit is that it's actually two entire overdrive circuits in parallel that get blended together to form the complete sound. It's a very complex circuit design...the Vulcan circuit has 117 components and the XL has 173. In practice it sounds a lot different than a B3K or something like that, so I hope you guys get the chance to try one for yourself before just assuming that it's a ripoff since it has a similar look. I've spent most of the last year fine-tuning and obsessing over every detail of these pedals and I'm really excited about the results.

Sorry to be long-winded, but I needed to be thorough because all the speculation on here gave me an anxiety attack. It really wasn't my intent to ruffle any feathers. I'm currently putting the finishing touches on a series of onboard preamps with a really cool twist, and I think you guys will like them.

Spencer, obviously you can answer this whenever you want, but, does the Vulcan XL cover all the sounds that the Vulcan does since the Vulcan has the pot for the colour as opposed to just the switch in the XL?
 
Spencer, obviously you can answer this whenever you want, but, does the Vulcan XL cover all the sounds that the Vulcan does since the Vulcan has the pot for the colour as opposed to just the switch in the XL?

There are some tones that the Vulcan can get that the XL can't. I like it that way - it makes each one unique in its own right.
 
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Sorry to be long-winded, but I needed to be thorough because all the speculation on here gave me an anxiety attack. It really wasn't my intent to ruffle any feathers. I'm currently putting the finishing touches on a series of onboard preamps with a really cool twist, and I think you guys will like them.

So essentially, whatever Darkglass does, 3Leaf/Pike does 6 months later. Gotcha.
 
So essentially, whatever Darkglass does, 3Leaf/Pike does 6 months later. Gotcha.
Not to be a butthole, but if you read his post, they aren't simply copies of Darkglass gear. Inspired by, sure... But how many pedals out there are direct clones of other pedals? I have no stake in this: I own neither Darkglass or 3 Leaf/ Pike gear.
 
Fanboi much?
I'm guessing because they used to work together Spencer should never make an overdrive?
And 4 band EQ. That's DG too?
Wow dude.
It's black Friday y'alls, go buy something and eat leftovers.

Let this sink in for a minute. I do believe that's a 4 band EQ, no?

Spencer could have AT LEAST used a different font for the print. I mean come on.

Microtubes-B7K-Made-in-Finland.png
 
I don't have a dog in this fight as I don't have a personal relationship with Spencer or Doug. But I have owned every 3Leaf pedal other than the Little Black Box (I still have an Octabvre and a Wonderlove) and I believe I was the first person in the U.S. to have a Darkglass B3K and since then have had a Duality, a U.S. B3K, a VMT and a B7K. Both guys have been very professional an easy to work with whenever I've had reason to contact them.

To be fair to Spencer, here's a picture I took of my first B3K:
utf-8BSU1HMDAzODAuanBn.jpg


and my second one looked like this (this isn't my picture)
b3k-USA-e1346258303490-359x500.jpg


So there were small but significant changes to the aesthetics. How much of that was Doug and how much was Spencer I don't know. But as I speculated earlier, I assumed the new pedals looked so similar because Spencer was using existing inventory. I don't think people realize how thin the margins are for designing, building and selling pedals. I think if these new designs had new enclosures this wouldn't as big of an issue, but I can understand Spencer not being able to just trash the investment in enclosures that were already made up for Darkglass pedals before their partnership went south.

Obviously it's not a good look because the first assumption is that the Vulcan and Vulcan XL are ripoffs based on the aesthetics being pretty much identical. I guess it comes down to a question of how much of a partnership existed between Doug and Spencer.

Hypothetically speaking if two people formed a company together and then split up then no one would likely begrudge one partner from making his own variations on the products as long as they weren't violating copyright law. On the other hand if someone were simply hired as a subcontractor to build designs for someone else and decided to make lookalikes after the agreement ended then we'd view that as a sort of fraud.

The truth is likely somewhere in the middle. And honestly I'd want to try the Vulcan to see how different it is from the B3K and VMT (and to see if I like it) before I grab my pitchfork.
 
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Spencer, thanks for replying to the thread. I dont want to keep rehashing anything but I feel that some of the replies were unfair and dealt with the looks rather the sound of the product. I have had several 3 leaf products and I am sure I will venture into the new pike stuff. Your reply completely makes sense. No sense in reinventing the wheel if you already have the stuff to build.